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good semi-bluff gone bad?


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Hero is dealt Q :D J :) (my favorite hand) on button. Game is a fairly typical 100$NL game. I bought in for 50, and have 55 in my stack. Preflop:-- All fold to CO, who limps. I raise 4xBB to 4$. SB calls (no read), BB calls (aggressive idiot), CO calls (solid player)Flop A :) 9 :) 3 :club: -- SB leads out 5$ (about 1/3 of pot), BB folds, CO folds. I think he's got a fairly weak ace, and is just testing the water. He might be weak leading a set, but I have to take that chance. I like my draws (2 backdoor straights, 2nd nut flush draw). I think about going all in straight up, but decide that looks to much like a bluff. I reraise to 20$, hoping to convince him I have AK and take the pot right now. Instead he reraises me all in. I'm getting 3:1 on a call, and I'm pot committed. Turn and river miss me, and he wins. Results to follow.

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Assuming you thought he was capable of folding a weak ace, the move is fine.The call was easy and required no thinking unless he was playin the king high flush in which case he has guts or a great read. But for god sake's, man, play with a deeper stack. Your style of play neccesitates it.Edit: Come to think of it, that third of the pot bet looks like it could easily be a flush draw.

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He showed A :) 8 :D; a pretty weak ace. I was a 60/40 dog on the all in, but that's not bad at all. I think I made a good move, it just didn't work against someone who can't fold top pair with no kicker. Usually, I buy in for 1/2 then just let my stack build. But my style of play doesn't really need a deep stack. I usually only post the hands where I look like a LAG, but I'm generally very tight.

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Usually, I buy in for 1/2  then just let my stack build.  But my style of play doesn't really need a deep stack.   I usually only post the hands where I look like a LAG, but I'm generally very tight.
I understand what you're saying but if you are going to do anything beyond peddle the nuts (such a semi-bluff like you did here) a deeper stack will come in handy. When you raised 20 there, you just raised half your stack with two streets to come. This really doesn't leave you much room to maneuve.rEdit:Just reread your post and realized I completely missed your point. Never mind.
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I dunno, that's a very weak bet which does indicate an ace.Take one off the deck and fold if it's not a club

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People so often confuse "semi-bluff," for betting a draw, they are totally different.A semi bluff is when you are holding, say 10 7, and the flop comes down A 7 2. You are going to bet like you have the Ace and your hand can improve.Betting a draw is betting with no hand whatsoever and is not a semi-bluff and is generally not wise.

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People so often confuse "semi-bluff," for betting a draw, they are totally different.A semi bluff is when you are holding, say 10 7, and the flop comes down A 7 2. You are going to bet like you have the Ace and your hand can improve.Betting a draw is betting with no hand whatsoever and is not a semi-bluff and is generally not wise.
You're wrong...and its funny because you think you're right.A semibluff is where you don't have the best hand at the moment but you can still win the pot in two different ways. One, by getting everyone to fold, two, by improving to the best hand by the river.Learn something new every day.
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Looks like I had 3 basic options here;1) Call, and see the turn for cheap. Given my raise preflop, he still will probably have a hard time putting me on a flush with the Ac out there. If I brick the turn, I'll have to evaluate his bet, and proceed from there.2) Make a pretty significant raise (about 15-25$ like I did), and hope to get him out now. If he calls, take a free card on the turn if unimproved. If further unimproved, let him have the pot unless I really think a river bluff will knock him out. 3) All in straight up. I thought an all in would look a little too much like a bluff. It's possible I could have pushed him off his pair with such a significant raise though. It's much harder to call a 50$ all in with A8o than it is to raise with it. How many would have chosen #3 instead of #2? If I'm going to bet so aggressively on my draw, should I just go all in to do all I can to get him out?

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People so often confuse "semi-bluff," for betting a draw, they are totally different.A semi bluff is when you are holding, say 10 7, and the flop comes down A 7 2. You are going to bet like you have the Ace and your hand can improve.Betting a draw is betting with no hand whatsoever and is not a semi-bluff and is generally not wise.
You're wrong...and its funny because you think you're right.A semibluff is where you don't have the best hand at the moment but you can still win the pot in two different ways. One, by getting everyone to fold, two, by improving to the best hand by the river.Learn something new every day.
He's betting a draw, how more clear can it be?It's not a semi-bluff, it's betting a draw. He has no hand to speak of, and nothing to fall back on. At worst we have a difference in definition, no need to get nasty about it.
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People so often confuse "semi-bluff," for betting a draw, they are totally different.A semi bluff is when you are holding, say 10 7, and the flop comes down A 7 2. You are going to bet like you have the Ace and your hand can improve.Betting a draw is betting with no hand whatsoever and is not a semi-bluff and is generally not wise.
You're wrong...and its funny because you think you're right.A semibluff is where you don't have the best hand at the moment but you can still win the pot in two different ways. One, by getting everyone to fold, two, by improving to the best hand by the river.Learn something new every day.
He's betting a draw, how more clear can it be?It's not a semi-bluff, it's betting a draw. He has no hand to speak of, and nothing to fall back on. At worst we have a difference in definition, no need to get nasty about it.
Like always, I'm not a big fan of being "nasty" (unless you ask for it, then my demeanor towards you may change). I don't think WRTO really meant to insult you though, and he's a pretty cool guy. But, he is correct on this one. I have "The Theory of Poker" right in front of me currently. Here is a quote: "A semi-bluff is a bet with a hand which, if called, does not figure to be the best hand at the moment but has a reasonable chance of outdrawing those hands that initially called it." Betting a flush draw would certainly fit into that definition of semi-bluffing. Heck, you even have 9 outs to the flush. In your definition of semi-bluffing with middle pair, you would only have 5 outs to outdraw top pair.Just to get back onto the topic of this thread, I dislike semi-bluffing with a flush draw unless I have overcards as well at low limit NL hold'em, especially with a short stack. That is why I preferred a flat call on the flop.
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Hmm, I was just reading that book and reading about the misconceptions of the term "semi-bluff.'" But if you have it right there and I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. I'm just sad that my e-p3nis just lost about an inch =.

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Also... He is a She.But to the OP... You might wanna change your favorite hand, lol. Just sayin. But I guess it could be for another reason besides it being a great hand. I do like 10-8s myself, so nevermind.

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Also... He is a She.But to the OP... You might wanna change your favorite hand, lol. Just sayin. But I guess it could be for another reason besides it being a great hand. I do like 10-8s myself, so nevermind.
You're going to get your e-ass kicked! :-)
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So wrto is a she? I always kinda thought she was a bearded older guy, as evidenced by the previous and current avatars (God and David Sklansky, oft one in the same, notwithstanding). (:

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Yeah, a semi-bluff definately needs two ways of winning, eithera. improving to the best handb. getting the guy to foldOtherwise, you are only betting a draw, which is stupid UNLESS the chance of hitting your draw gives you a better than 50% chance to win the pot, in which case you're value-betting. As well, in this case, you're rooting for your opponent to either call OR fold OR raise. If he folds, you win because he had odds to stick with his hand (unless it was utter garbage), if he calls you win because you made a value bet that was called, if he raises you might have to be a bit concerned that you're not at the 50%+ you think you are, but you definately have pot odds to continue. You're in the greatest spot of all, if your opponent acts you win! OR it's wise to bet a draw if you will knock out a third player therefore increasing your chance of winning against the other opponent if you miss your draw but back into some sort of top-pair or second-pair holding that beats the remaining opponent.I'm done digressing... in this case, your semi-bluff HAS to do both a and b. Your raise would probably look like someone protecting AK if you put in a big enough (probably about pot-sized or bigger) raise. If this guy doesn't have a read on you quite yet, a big bet might look like a protection bet just as much as it would look like a bluff. If he sticks to any A like flies on poop, then this isn't a semi-bluff anymore.

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He's betting a draw, how more clear can it be?It's not a semi-bluff, it's betting a draw. He has no hand to speak of, and nothing to fall back on. At worst we have a difference in definition, no need to get nasty about it.
Betting a draw is a semi-bluff!! we're all right!! yay!! we can all win!! none of our e-p3nises have to shrink!! yay!!
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ok anyway, as for the hand. Just remember this guy and this hand. Know he will call with any Ace to a pre-flop raise and won't let the ace go if he hits it. Don't try to act like you have AK when he bets into you with an ace on the board next time. You didn't make a bad move. But I would think that if someone would call a pre-flop raise with any ace, they're probably not letting it go, even for a reraise on the flop. The ace is the whole reason they called in the first place.

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If you are going to put $20 in there and call an all in, then why not PUSH IT in the first place?You have shown that you are very strong. Hopefully, they think for a while and fold. Or, you end up chasing your flush.I think the A8 may have folded. Buuuuuuuuuuuut, I doubt it the way he played it to your $20 bet.Soooooo, my answer is.....It depends on the player.Is he smart enough to lay down a weak kicker?Or is he not smart enough to lay down?

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