NormanHaupt 0 Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Okay, I'ven oticed this, A LOT. people limping AA, KK, AK to attract more fish. They've caught me on it. I have KQ and flop the K and I've lost a ton of mony to this strategy.Does it really pay off? Has anyone crunched the numbers? I personally seem to pay these off A TON. Link to post Share on other sites
AK33 0 Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Personally I don't think it's a wise play in a cash game unless you are UTG and are reasonably sure someone will raise if you are at an aggressive table. That is the only time I would do it. The past few times I've gotten AA it always seems to be UTG but I still raise because most of time the table is too passive. I am not sure how you would figure the odds because you'd have to simulate AA or KK against a number or random hands and some decent hands like JT or Q9 for those who limp in. If you are giving a number of players an opportunity to out draw you it is the worst thing you could do. I could see limping in on the button if everyone folds to you but there is no way I would limp in with such a strong hand in middle or late position with a few limpers already in the pot.Tournaments are a different story somewhat, players only come in with good to great hands especially late in a tournament but if I noticed somone limping in early in the late stages of a tournament I would definitely put them on a hand. ~Slick~ Link to post Share on other sites
MarionSauce 0 Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 I think that is really unwise because in a much larger pool, your AA will get outdrawn easily, and since most people overplay AA, that equals major losses. I always raise preflop, just so I don't have to whine about losing to 2-5 later. Link to post Share on other sites
woutoR 0 Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 limping with AA, KK, AK is the worst thing you can do Link to post Share on other sites
Rocketwadster 0 Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 limping with pocket aces or kings depends on your position at the table, and the way the players at the table have been playing. UTG or UTG+1, I would limp, hoping to get raised so I can re-raise. Then, almost regardless of the flop cards I bet HARD. ANy other position, I raise with them. :wink: Link to post Share on other sites
NormanHaupt 0 Posted April 1, 2005 Author Share Posted April 1, 2005 But it seems I lose SO much money to these guys. Seriously, I get caught all the time with it. I see it AT LEAST once every 2 hours in a session Link to post Share on other sites
holman3rd 0 Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 limping with pocket aces or kings depends on your position at the table, and the way the players at the table have been playing. UTG or UTG+1, I would limp, hoping to get raised so I can re-raise. Then, almost regardless of the flop cards I bet HARD. ANy other position, I raise with them. :wink:I like to limp with AA in the SB when it's folded to me. As you all know, Aces play much better against few opponents. I like this play against aggressive players especially, since they will basically bet for me.In the BB I'll tend to call a SB raise preflop when heads up. Note that in both of these situations, I'm not saying that I ALWAYS play like that. If I did, an aware player would realize that if I raised in the SB (when folded to me), it meant I did not have AA.Othere than these particular situations, I tend to raise with AA. However, I do occassionaly limp when UTG, for example, to mix up my game. Link to post Share on other sites
creepy20 0 Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 limping with AA,KK, are such bad moves. You are just asking for somebody to draw out on you. most of the tables i play at 40 to 50% of the people are seeing the flop if there was no raise...and if its only a little raise...most people who limped are going to call cold. So limping with those hands is a bad play I think. You should only limp in early position hoping to get raised so you can reraise ( assuming its an aggressive table with a lot of preflop raises)...if you know a lot of people are limping then you better put in a good raise to get those suited middle connectors out of there. Are you calling all in with top pair second best kicker??....you should probably throw it away thinking somebody hit trips or got a lucky flop with 2 pair. I don't like calling all ins with KQ when all I have is top pair. Wait for a better spot. just my thoughts Link to post Share on other sites
chrisuk_sw 0 Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 The only times I limp/smooth call with AA/KK is when I'm playing heads up, or in this specific situation:- its late on in a NL tournament and the blinds are so high there's usually only 2 players to the flop- someone in EP/MP has put in a significant raise preflop and I have position Link to post Share on other sites
Erudis 0 Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 limping from time to time with AA, KK, AK isn't some cardinal sin (not sure if OP was referring to limit or NL; what I have to say applies to NL). in fact, i recommend that you do it every now and then (i do). the key to playing this way, however, is that you really need to be a good post-flop player and know when you're beat and get off the hand. if you have a hard time folding AA or KK, for example, then without a doubt you should be raising and playing them the standard way every time. however, if you're a good enough post-flop player, limp with them once in a while. what you're trying to do in these cases is catch someone overplaying top pair against your AA, or charge people if they're on a draw. if you limp with them, do not get married to your hand or you're gonna get smoked. Link to post Share on other sites
MasterLJ 0 Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 You can't really generalize limping monsters. Poker comes in many flavors. I agree that in limit, limping monsters is a horrible idea. In NL it's slightly less bad, but still probably bad.What if you're heads up? Just about the WORST thing you can do is raise with rockets. Why? Because if they have a nice starting hand, they WILL raise you, then you can go from there. There's no point in just stealing the blinds with rockets heads-up. You have any hand dominated 5 to 1 pre-flop. If you get your Ace and they got no piece of the flop (no flush or str draw), they are drawing dead.It's a rare case, but some people make a living playing heads up =P. Link to post Share on other sites
Briguy 0 Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 But it seems I lose SO much money to these guys. Seriously, I get caught all the time with it. I see it AT LEAST once every 2 Â hours in a sessionI immediately make note of the "premmie limpers" the first time they catch me (or someone else at the table) with it. They never catch me twice. It may work against people who don't take notes, but I doubt that it earns as much money as raising (or limp-raising) those hands, in the long run. Link to post Share on other sites
DCWildcat 0 Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 limping with pocket aces or kings depends on your position at the table, and the way the players at the table have been playing. Â UTG or UTG+1, I would limp, hoping to get raised so I can re-raise. Â Then, almost regardless of the flop cards I bet HARD. Â ANy other position, I raise with them. :wink:I like to limp with AA in the SB when it's folded to me. As you all know, Aces play much better against few opponents. I like this play against aggressive players especially, since they will basically bet for me.In the BB I'll tend to call a SB raise preflop when heads up. Note that in both of these situations, I'm not saying that I ALWAYS play like that. If I did, an aware player would realize that if I raised in the SB (when folded to me), it meant I did not have AA.Othere than these particular situations, I tend to raise with AA. However, I do occassionaly limp when UTG, for example, to mix up my game.I agree. I'd be slightly more prone to limping with AK--it's a drawing hand anyway. But all of tha hands go down reaaallllll fast in value with more than a caller or two. Link to post Share on other sites
jack24bauer24 0 Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 There's a huge difference between limping with aa or kk in an NL as opposed to limit game. Link to post Share on other sites
Nutcracker 0 Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 I always raise preflop, just so I don't have to whine about losing to 2-5 later.How about when you raise preflop and get beat by 2-5 anyway ~ Link to post Share on other sites
Erudis 0 Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 in that case, we all whine away =) (we, of course, aren't mad at the player who beat us - we're happy to have him in the hand! - we're mad at the cards for not letting us get paid off) Link to post Share on other sites
HtotheNootch 0 Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 But it seems I lose SO much money to these guys. Seriously, I get caught all the time with it. I see it AT LEAST once every 2 Â hours in a sessionBecause you're aggressive. However, in the long run consistent limping in LHE will lose. Here's one I've gotten caught with on more than one occasion. I get K-Q in the cutoff. I'm first in the pot so I raise. I get two callers. I hit a K or Q on the flop. I bet and just get one caller. The turn is a blank. I bet again. Get called. Another blank on the river. I bet, and now get raised. What's he got? AA Link to post Share on other sites
NormanHaupt 0 Posted April 2, 2005 Author Share Posted April 2, 2005 But it seems I lose SO much money to these guys. Seriously, I get caught all the time with it. I see it AT LEAST once every 2 Â hours in a sessionBecause you're aggressive. However, in the long run consistent limping in LHE will lose. Here's one I've gotten caught with on more than one occasion. I get K-Q in the cutoff. I'm first in the pot so I raise. I get two callers. I hit a K or Q on the flop. I bet and just get one caller. The turn is a blank. I bet again. Get called. Another blank on the river. I bet, and now get raised. What's he got? AAYup, just happened to me. Playing A7s. Flop came down 2 of my color with an A in the middle.I bet out because I'm way out of position. Figured someone may have my A beat, but maybe not. Get a couple callers, turn is a J of another suit. I bet out again, two folds, get to the river.I hit my seven on the river for two pair. not the nut flush ,but it'll do. I bet out, get reraised. Did he hit two pair..? no flush on the board, doesn't fit into a straight.. I reraise it.He hit trip AAA.Now, to mirror that example, I *JUST* had AA in the BB while writing this pot. UTG raises, MP2 and 3 call two cold, folds to me in the BB. I make it one more to go for them and they all call.Flop is JT3, JT suited. I bet out again, UTG Calls, MP2 raises, MP3 drops. Now i'm curious what kind of hand he has. He could be on the nutflush draw since I don't have the A of the suited cards. So I reraise once more for information. UTG dives out of the way, he calls.J , T , 3 turns into a 7 . I bet out, again, and he reraises me. Okay, at this point I'm pretty sure he hit two pair, or maybe his AJ hit. Over here people raise with everything so I commit myself to call it down now.River is a 2 , to which I check call.He flips over KQs. So this leaves me wondering if its really a smart idea to limp AA afterall, so its easier to toss it away. I wonder if I should have been calling those bets. Link to post Share on other sites
Smasharoo 0 Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 Does it really pay off?No.Limp-reraising onthe other hand is often a good idea, but if you end up seeing a flop for the limp you're unhappy and losing money. Link to post Share on other sites
pockets 0 Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 I'd be slightly more prone to limping with AK--it's a drawing hand anyway.Take that thought. Think the opposite. Now you're correct. Link to post Share on other sites
looshle 6 Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 I rarely do this but sometimes it can be very effective. I'll limp with AA or KK UTG in a NL game if the table has been very aggresive preflop. You shouldn't limp to disguise your hand on the flop, you should only try it so you can re raise preflop. If you limp UTG or UTG+1 with AA or KK, and its onl called and theflop comes down, you might have to be prepared to let it go at some point. Link to post Share on other sites
HtotheNootch 0 Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 Norman,your example confirmed my guess.I've read your posts, and think that you're a good player - probably better than me. This is one of those things you can't avoid. I'm starting to absorb more of SSHE, and most likely (based on the info you have) you think you're getting max value from the best hand. It's the vulnerability of playing an aggressive game. However, I'd expect that you are also reasonably tight. So it gets frustrating. If you're playing against someone who will check/call a monster then your going to lose some pots. Jusst think though how it will work when you take KQ against his rockets and hit the 2 pair/trips card on the river.; Link to post Share on other sites
NormanHaupt 0 Posted April 2, 2005 Author Share Posted April 2, 2005 Norman,your example confirmed my guess.I've read your posts, and think that you're a good player - probably better than me.  This is one of those things you can't avoid.  I'm starting to absorb more of SSHE, and most likely (based on the info you  have) you think you're getting max value from the best hand.  It's the vulnerability of playing an aggressive game.  However, I'd expect that you are also reasonably tight.  So it gets frustrating.  If you're playing against someone who will check/call a monster then your going to lose some pots.  Jusst think though how it will work when you take KQ against his rockets and hit the 2 pair/trips card on the river.;ty for the ego stroke. Is that John Travolta in your avatar?Anyway, I'm just being a cry baby right now because I've had a huge massive downswing and I need something to blame it on. I, think, however, I have a new theory and i'm about to post it over on the main forums. Its only semi-related to this.Yes, I think to myself consitantly how nice it would've been to hit a flush on the river because he played trip A's sweet the entire way. Unfortunately, I hit my hand hard enough not to let it go.I'm just upset with my poker game right now- Web and wrto can tell you my emotions seem to swing with my bank roll. You should've seen me last night this time when I was up 120xBB in like 8 hours. Link to post Share on other sites
HtotheNootch 0 Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 Norman,your example confirmed my guess.I've read your posts, and think that you're a good player - probably better than me.  This is one of those things you can't avoid.  I'm starting to absorb more of SSHE, and most likely (based on the info you  have) you think you're getting max value from the best hand.  It's the vulnerability of playing an aggressive game.  However, I'd expect that you are also reasonably tight.  So it gets frustrating.  If you're playing against someone who will check/call a monster then your going to lose some pots.  Jusst think though how it will work when you take KQ against his rockets and hit the 2 pair/trips card on the river.;ty for the ego stroke. Is that John Travolta in your avatar?Anyway, I'm just being a cry baby right now because I've had a huge massive downswing and I need something to blame it on. I, think, however, I have a new theory and i'm about to post it over on the main forums. Its only semi-related to this.Yes, I think to myself consitantly how nice it would've been to hit a flush on the river because he played trip A's sweet the entire way. Unfortunately, I hit my hand hard enough not to let it go.I'm just upset with my poker game right now- Web and wrto can tell you my emotions seem to swing with my bank roll. You should've seen me last night this time when I was up 120xBB in like 8 hours.John Travolta?@!? That's the late Prophet Bill Hicks. Link to post Share on other sites
NormanHaupt 0 Posted April 2, 2005 Author Share Posted April 2, 2005 lol looks like John from hereAvatar size needs increased I guess. Link to post Share on other sites
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