Was It Right To Shove?

[Rhegium 0]

I thought i played this right with the big raise and then the shove at the time. Villian though is a calling station.Only 11 left at the time, I was 5th in chips, she was 6th. Results in white.FullTiltPoker Game #5392476831: $3 + $0.30 Knockout (40901513), Table 22 - 1500/3000 Ante 400 - No Limit Hold'em - 4:03:34 ET - 2008/02/25Seat 1: PTtheFish (160,305)Seat 3: Nealskitch (62,536)Seat 4: Sept4 (84,168)Seat 5: Rhegium (89,520)Seat 9: MihaiB (49,130)PTtheFish antes 400Nealskitch antes 400Sept4 antes 400Rhegium antes 400MihaiB antes 400Rhegium posts the small blind of 1,500MihaiB posts the big blind of 3,000The button is in seat #4*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Rhegium [Ah Jh]PTtheFish foldsNealskitch calls 3,000Sept4 calls 3,000Rhegium raises to 18,000MihaiB foldsNealskitch foldsSept4 calls 15,000*** FLOP *** [9s 4c 6s]Rhegium bets 71,120, and is all inResultsSept4 calls 65,768, and is all inRhegium shows [Ah Jh]Sept4 shows [Ts Td]Uncalled bet of 5,352 returned to Rhegium*** TURN *** [9s 4c 6s] [Jc]*** RIVER *** [9s 4c 6s Jc] [Tc]Rhegium shows a pair of JacksSept4 shows three of a kind, TensSept4 wins the pot (175,536) with three of a kind, Tens*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 175,536 | Rake 0Board: [9s 4c 6s Jc Tc]Seat 1: PTtheFish folded before the FlopSeat 3: Nealskitch folded before the FlopSeat 4: Sept4 (button) showed [Ts Td] and won (175,536) with three of a kind, TensSeat 5: Rhegium (small blind) showed [Ah Jh] and lost with a pair of JacksSeat 9: MihaiB (big blind) folded before the Flop

[Lucoo_ 0]

This is not right at aaaaaaaaaall, why would you donkshove that flop ??????????? You got enough chips to move around, that is off course if you stop making 6x BB raises from the small blind.

[Jargonator 0]

Convert Hands,Raise between 2.5 - 4 BB preflop (adding 1 for every limper)Leading out is ok here but shoving is baaaaaaaad, bet 1/2 - full pot if you're gonna bet,If villain is a calling station you're prob better of check folding here as villain is unlikely to be trying anything too wild with good chips on FT bubble.

[copernicus 0]

The problem starts with the size of the PF raise. Its made the pot 45k and theres only 66k behind. Any bet needs to be a push, but you really dont want to push when you miss the flop 66% of the time. If the PF raise had only been to 8000 the pot is now 25k with 76k behind. Now you can lead the flop for 1/2 pot, be in basically the same chip position as the original line, and have picked up pretty much the same fold equity as a push without the risk.Edit in white after seeing the results: Obviously there was no FE to pick up with that flop. Lead 1/2 pot into 25k and villain has a problem with his smallish overpair, because he hates flatting and giving you a look at the turn card when you most likely have 2 overcards. He knows youre unlikely to lead the turn if you miss. If he pushes he chases you out. This line takes control of the hand away from him even though youre OOP.

[outsider13 0]

The problem starts with the size of the PF raise. Its made the pot 45k and theres only 66k behind. Any bet needs to be a push, but you really dont want to push when you miss the flop 66% of the time. If the PF raise had only been to 8000 the pot is now 25k with 76k behind. Now you can lead the flop for 1/2 pot, be in basically the same chip position as the original line, and have picked up pretty much the same fold equity as a push without the risk.

I was thinking the same thing.Would limping be an option here? I hate limping with a pretty strong A, but you can be assured that the first 2 limpers aren't AQ+. I think you see a small pair when you get 2 limpers this late in the game. At least you can try to hit, or get out cheaply.

[copernicus 0]

I was thinking the same thing.Would limping be an option here? I hate limping with a pretty strong A, but you can be assured that the first 2 limpers aren't AQ+. I think you see a small pair when you get 2 limpers this late in the game. At least you can try to hit, or get out cheaply.

imo 2.5x raise >> limping>>push>>>>>>>6x raiseThe problem with limping is it devalues your high cards and turns it into not much better than suited connectors. Its not too bad though, especially if villains are passive and youre disciplined enough not to stack off with TPTK against a flopped set or two pair.

[MovingIn 0]

Agree with cop: the 3xBB+ 1 BB per limper raise PF only applies with a hand you fully intend to take all the way. When we have a hand whose play depends on a flop, we want to control the pot and give ourselves room to work post-flop.

[jmbreslin 0]

Agree with cop: the 3xBB+ 1 BB per limper raise PF only applies with a hand you fully intend to take all the way. When we have a hand whose play depends on a flop, we want to control the pot and give ourselves room to work post-flop.

Wouldn't this basically narrow the range of 3xBB+1/limper hands to AA/KK? Pretty much everything else can be greatly affected by flop texture.

[MovingIn 0]

Sure... if you're going to make such a PF raise at this stage, and I'm not sure I would, save for certain circumstances (a steal attempt with fold equity or maybe plaing the aforementioned AA or KK if I believe I will get a call or reraise, etc... and even then, if such a raise is too out of character for our table image, it may not be a +EV play). I think we help ourselves more at this stage by controlling pot size and giving ourselves options after the flop.

[Snake Plissken 0]

Your play is a kamikaze play. Sometimes it work, but just as many times you'll find yourself in bad shape. Every once in a while you'll find yourself be up against a set of nines, and you'd be drawing dead and call yourself unlucky. There's a ton of lucky involved when your winning a tournament, but if you are going to play a hand like AJ this you need more then a ton of luck to win. It's a different story if the flop brought two hearts instead. Then you'd be a favourite vs his 1010. Worst case scenario would be if he flopped a set, but you'd have plenty of outs to make your hand.

[Mercury69 3]

That there is a stop n go with no back up. Not something I would do. The only hands that are calling you are hands that beat you and I happen to know that is NOT what you want. Is there something wrong with a probe bet of 35-50% of the pot? That will chase out callers who missed the flop. Some drawers might stick around, particularly if they have two spades in the pocket, but at least you'll be keeping the pot smaller. If you get called, reevaluate on the turn. If you get raised, get out.One more thing>>> BBFIDTS