Top Two On All Diamond Flop

[Roberts2003 0]

guy is a pretty loose playerFull Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (2 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Hero ($469.25)BB ($669.75)Preflop: Hero is Button with K, 9. Hero raises to $12, BB calls $8.Flop: ($26) 3, 9, K(2 players)BB checks, Hero bets $16, BB calls $16.Turn: ($58) 6(2 players)BB bets $24, Hero ...?also, if i raise, do i call a push?

[mtdesmoines 3]

also, if i raise, do i call a push?

No and no.

[Zach6668 513]

I kinda like playing this passively here.I call the turn. Pot will only be slightly over $100, so we shouldn't be facing a stack sized bet or anything on the river. I'd call any non diamond river up to a pot size bet, I think.Someone tell me why I'm wrong, plz.

[Royal_Tour 0]

I wouldnt really say its passive.i mean top 2 in HU is a big hand, but we really should control the pot size here. what kind of raise can u make on the turn that gives us any sort of info? I like the play of just calling.But, i also like this line:raise the turn to 65 fold to a push. call non-diamond river.

[docnuclear 0]

I wouldnt really say its passive.i mean top 2 in HU is a big hand, but we really should control the pot size here. what kind of raise can u make on the turn that gives us any sort of info? I like the play of just calling.But, i also like this line:raise the turn to 65 fold to a push. call non-diamond river.

I'm with royal tour on this one

[Jordan 1]

I usually raise in a vacuum. Often this is going to be a draw trying to "set his price", thus, you make a raise to around $75-$100 so he doesn't do that chit.If he pushes, you have to re-evaluate and figure out if he will do this with anything less than a flush. Reads, gut, intuition obv.---Pot control is good, but I think this is a draw more often than a flush.- Jordan

[CobaltBlue 662]

Often this is going to be a draw trying to "set his price"...

Exactly...with a small chance of a one pair hand with a crappy attempt to protect it.

[Scott3705 0]

I usually raise in a vacuum. ...... but I think this is a draw more often than a flush.- Jordan

Exactly again why HU is difficult to analyze online. Villian could be trying to entice hero to push at this pot with a flush too depending on how OP has been playing post flop.

[Acid_Knight 2]

Often this is going to be a draw trying to "set his price", thus, you make a raise to around $75-$100 so he doesn't do that chit.

This was my first thought when I saw the bet sizing.I agree with Jordan that more often than not, this is a player drawing to the flush and setting his price for the river card, or a weak attempt to get to showdown more cheaply with a 1 pair type hand.I think that you should be raising here fairly often. You're HU and you have top 2. That's a monster hand. Yes, the board is suited, but even if he did happen to have a flush, he would have to be afraid that you might have a bigger one. You also have position on him. If you raise here, he calls and then the river is a 4th diamond and he leads into you, you should be able to fold pretty confidently.Raising here protects your hand since it is probably best, gets value for it by making him pay to draw with all other hands that you beat and it keeps you in control of the hand.Obviously if he comes over the top of your raise, there will be issues. I would almost never call a push here since it'd be a crazy overbet, but if he does raise, that's where the history between you two comes in.

[Royal_Tour 0]

I usually raise in a vacuum. Often this is going to be a draw trying to "set his price", thus, you make a raise to around $75-$100 so he doesn't do that chit.If he pushes, you have to re-evaluate and figure out if he will do this with anything less than a flush. Reads, gut, intuition obv.---Pot control is good, but I think this is a draw more often than a flush.- Jordan

This was my first thought when I saw the bet sizing.I agree with Jordan that more often than not, this is a player drawing to the flush and setting his price for the river card, or a weak attempt to get to showdown more cheaply with a 1 pair type hand.I think that you should be raising here fairly often. You're HU and you have top 2. That's a monster hand. Yes, the board is suited, but even if he did happen to have a flush, he would have to be afraid that you might have a bigger one. You also have position on him. If you raise here, he calls and then the river is a 4th diamond and he leads into you, you should be able to fold pretty confidently.Raising here protects your hand since it is probably best, gets value for it by making him pay to draw with all other hands that you beat and it keeps you in control of the hand.Obviously if he comes over the top of your raise, there will be issues. I would almost never call a push here since it'd be a crazy overbet, but if he does raise, that's where the history between you two comes in.

If he calls the turn, and the river is a non diamond brick, and he checks. do we bet?I am on the "raise the turn" side, but i think i might check down the river

[Scott3705 0]

If he calls the turn, and the river is a non diamond brick, and he checks. do we bet?I am on the "raise the turn" side, but i think i might check down the river

I wouldn't think the villian would offer us a free river if he's there. If I did raise this bet and was then checked to on a nothing river, I think I'd try to make a small value bet on the river. I just think the flush, being OOP, is going to try to get 'em in on the turn if we reraise. I don't think he's going to risk not getting a river C/R in or watching another diamond fall.

[Acid_Knight 2]

If he calls the turn, and the river is a non diamond brick, and he checks. do we bet?I am on the "raise the turn" side, but i think i might check down the river

Of course we're betting. If he didn't repop the turn and didn't lead the river, what are we worrying about? If it turns out that it plays out that way and I value bet his small flush for him, then so be it, I still think betting is correct.

[Naismith 0]

I agree with Jordan here, but I also want to throw out there that I've seen this a billion times with a top pair type hand that wanted to see a safe turn card before betting.

[Scott3705 0]

Take this for what it is cause I don't play HU cash games and don't really have a strong feel of how aggressive they can get. Thinking about this hand again, I'm just wondering, how would we play a flush given the action. HU, would we really re-pop here or try to trap? I think that question is important because raising the turn can appear as a bet/fold line to villian if he's competent. Reads are he's loose which doesn't mean incompetent and possibly suicidal enough to push at this pot if we reraised with just a bare diamond.

[Royal_Tour 0]

Take this for what it is cause I don't play HU cash games and don't really have a strong feel of how aggressive they can get. Thinking about this hand again, I'm just wondering, how would we play a flush given the action. HU, would we really re-pop here or try to trap? I think that question is important because raising the turn can appear as a bet/fold line to villian if he's competent. Reads are he's loose which doesn't mean incompetent and possibly suicidal enough to push at this pot if we reraised with just a bare diamond.

i thought the same just now while in the shower.and On a side note. HOw do we play this hand if we're villain and he hold Ad,3c for bottom pair, with Nut flush draw?

[Jordan 1]

Take this for what it is cause I don't play HU cash games and don't really have a strong feel of how aggressive they can get. Thinking about this hand again, I'm just wondering, how would we play a flush given the action. HU, would we really re-pop here or try to trap? I think that question is important because raising the turn can appear as a bet/fold line to villian if he's competent. Reads are he's loose which doesn't mean incompetent and possibly suicidal enough to push at this pot if we reraised with just a bare diamond.

If I have a flush on the turn and am lead into I raise almost 100%.My personal style HU i'm raising a lot, including air here as well...so meh, I generate a lot of action, and get played back at too...but as played thus far, if I'm lead into on the turn, I def raise with a flush, and put him to a decision/try and get him to re-shove on me out of frustration. I get a lot of frustration shoves against me...- Jordan

[Scott3705 0]

If I have a flush on the turn and am lead into I raise almost 100%.My personal style HU i'm raising a lot, including air here as well...so meh, I generate a lot of action, and get played back at too...but as played thus far, if I'm lead into on the turn, I def raise with a flush, and put him to a decision/try and get him to re-shove on me out of frustration. I get a lot of frustration shoves against me...- Jordan

This was kind of what I thought. In this case then (varying by opponent) we're going to have to call a push often then with top two pair.

[Jordan 1]

This was kind of what I thought. In this case then (varying by opponent) we're going to have to call a push often then with top two pair.

Yea, HU play is based a lot off your opponent obv...as I told roberts on AIM, once I make the raise on the turn, if he comes over the top all in, and I just feel like he can't do this without a flush then I dump it. I trust my intuition 100% hu, and I think I have very good feel...but like I said, in a vac...i raise the turn to $75-$100 and go on from there...it's just going to be a draw more often than a flush...but yada yada, if you have history of the guy leadign weak into you with strong hands where he wants to be raised, you use that info..but that's not provided for us by op- Jordan

[Zach6668 513]

I didn't realize this was HU. I'd prolly be raising.

[Roberts2003 0]

gut is huge in NL, especially Heads up. a lot of play is based on feel and the flow of the match, and this is why there are no good NL cash game books. I was pretty sure he was weak leading the turn with a flush, and i was so close to just calling, but instead i raised to 100 because i felt i "had to". he then proceeded to quickly shove on me, and i of course donk called hoping to see pair/diamond since he was lag only to see Q2 diamonds. nh.

[Scott3705 0]

gut is huge in NL, especially Heads up. a lot of play is based on feel and the flow of the match, and this is why there are no good NL cash game books. I was pretty sure he was weak leading the turn with a flush, and i was so close to just calling, but instead i raised to 100 because i felt i "had to". he then proceeded to quickly shove on me, and i of course donk called hoping to see pair/diamond since he was lag only to see Q2 diamonds. nh.

Yes, I win. :)No, but I really agree with Jordan that this is a raise in a vaccum. I do think that if you suspected he was weak-leading to entice a push that you should consider folding to the shove though. If you think he's weak-leading and pushing to just make a play, then you're closer to a call.

[Roberts2003 0]

Yes, I win. :)No, but I really agree with Jordan that this is a raise in a vaccum. I do think that if you suspected he was weak-leading to entice a push that you should consider folding to the shove though. If you think he's weak-leading and pushing to just make a play, then you're closer to a call.

when your in the middle of a 3K downswing its a lot easier to stack off with top 2 here

[Acid_Knight 2]

when your in the middle of a 3K downswing its a lot easier to stack off with top 2 here

In a situation like this, I'd say that you made a mistake (not because he obv showed up with the flush) calling because it seems unlikely that he's gonna push back with anyhting but a flush here. You called off a lot of money in a situation where he's likely drawing very live or you're drawing very slim.As an addendum to your variance thread, I'd say that hands like this are leaning more towards you playing poorly than running badly becuase I think this is a hand you should fold when he pushes and you know it too. Also, losing 3K when playing HU 5/10NL is absolutely nothing.

[Scott3705 0]

In a situation like this, I'd say that you made a mistake (not because he obv showed up with the flush) calling because it seems unlikely that he's gonna push back with anyhting but a flush here. You called off a lot of money in a situation where he's likely drawing very live or you're drawing very slim.As an addendum to your variance thread, I'd say that hands like this are leaning more towards you playing poorly than running badly becuase I think this is a hand you should fold when he pushes and you know it too. Also, losing 3K when playing HU 5/10NL is absolutely nothing.

In villian's shoes, do you think you'd be willing to push with a lone diamond if you think hero's on a possible bet/fold line?

[Acid_Knight 2]

In villian's shoes, do you think you'd be willing to push with a lone diamond if you think hero's on a possible bet/fold line?

If I had AdKx, maybe. The problem is the villain's action on the turn. He check-called the hero's bet on the flop and then led a ridiculously small amount on the turn. From Roberts posts we can safely assume he's an aggressor. The villain likely knew this and that he'd smell weakness in his tiny bet and raise it. The villain planned to get raised on the turn so he could push. Few players set something up like that without a hand.