flop decision party 2k plo8

[Smasharoo 0]

I'm on the button with Ad 4d Js Jh.Folded to C/O who min raises, I call, blinds fold, pot's at 110.Flop is Jd 3s 5s. He leads 60 into me.I....Oh, we both have ~3kish stacks.

[econ_tim 0]

I guess this is PLO8.Call the flop, pot any good turn.

[Smasharoo 0]

I guess this is PLO8.Call the flop, pot any good turn.Yup.Tell me why you wouldn't raise the flop with a vulnerable hand.

[econ_tim 0]

Tell me why you wouldn't raise the flop with a vulnerable hand.If Villain repots it on this flop we're in pretty bad shape. We'd be getting 2 to 1, but we'd have to think we're playing for half the pot most of the time, and losing that between 1/3rd and 1/4th of the time. On the turn our equity changes a lot.I don't really know, though, just my first impression.

[Smasharoo 0]

If Villain repots it on this flop we're in pretty bad shape. We'd be getting 2 to 1, but we'd have to think we're playing for half the pot most of the time, and losing that between 1/3rd and 1/4th of the time. On the turn our equity changes a lot. What range of hands would you put a repot on here, and would you be comfortable getting all the chips in here if that were an option?

[econ_tim 0]

What range of hands would you put a repot on here, and would you be comfortable getting all the chips in here if that were an option?

AsXs2XAsXs4XAsXs33AsXs55A24X246Xs467XsMaybe some others.I'd have to run the numbers somewhere, but I wouldn't like getting all the money in vs. a flush draw with a better low.

[Smasharoo 0]

From a pure math standpoint, we're ahead of A2+ flush draws here.We're even marginaly ahead of, say, As2s6dAc or something along those lines.The only hands were signifigantly hurt by are flush wraps like As2s4x etc.Would that change your decision to call any?

[econ_tim 0]

I'll suppose we're ahead of Villain's range of repotting hands, so that getting all the chips in on the flop has a positive (maybe small) expectation.Now I just need to figure out if waiting for the turn has a better expectation. For starters, your equity can go way up on the turn (board pairs, brick hits, etc.) and Villain will probably still put chips in. The thing that worries me is that sometimes you will make mistakes, because you don't know which draws Villain has.So going in on the flop prevents us from being outplayed, but if we think we can outplay Villain, wait for the turn.I'd like to hear what you did.

[Smasharoo 0]

I raised it to 120, he called.Turn was 2d, which is where we get to the intresting part.He pots it, and it's 350ish to me.

[Rocketwadster 0]

Fold that flop.Isn't that what you say 99% of the time?If it was me, playing at a table where the dollar values were relevant to to what I play at, I would probaly just call. 8)

[mrdannyg 274]

I raised it to 120, he called.Turn was 2d, which is where we get to the intresting part.He pots it, and it's 350ish to me.

ok, so in this situation, are you looking to get all your chips in? assuming he has A46, what is your equity (approx)this is what I don't get about omaha PL strategy - do you pump in now with your equity advantage or just call and wait for the river. i'd assume the former, but I'm never sure with O8 PL

[Rocketwadster 0]

I raised it to 120, he called.Turn was 2d, which is where we get to the intresting part.He pots it, and it's 350ish to me.

Now that is interesting. Here, I think I would call, hoping to make some money on the river too.

[JacKingOff_suit 0]

I think the approach is to think about what eack action CO took means to us.Min-raise preflop.betting half of the pot on the flop, calling min-raise.Potting the turn.he didn't have A46.Repot it!Edited:Even if he played in a weired way that he had A46, - At worst you got quartered.- you still have 16 outs (9 diamonds, two 3s, two 5s, two 2 (don't count on 2 of spade), one J)- So, even you were against A46, you weren't so behind.To be exact, even you were against A46, you were 16/24 = 2/3 .

[JacKingOff_suit 0]

Also I liked the min-raise on the flop, if he had wrap around draws, flush draws... It'll be a crime for CO for not reraising you. He should be playing at $25 table instead of 2k.

[Vman96 0]

I raised it to 120, he called.Turn was 2d, which is where we get to the intresting part.He pots it, and it's 350ish to me.

ok, so in this situation, are you looking to get all your chips in? assuming he has A46, what is your equity (approx)this is what I don't get about omaha PL strategy - do you pump in now with your equity advantage or just call and wait for the river. i'd assume the former, but I'm never sure with O8 PL

Smash would be a 52.5 to 47.5 dog in equity against A46. A 4 to 3 favorite against villain wheel + flush draw. And a 6 to 4 favorite in equity against the wheel only. If you don't believe he has A46, a push is in order. You have a significant edge over any hand other than A46. Re-raise.

[Smasharoo 0]

Who calls and who raises and why?

[Vman96 0]

Smash...I just edited it...I didn't notice you picked up Flush draw on the turn.

[CobaltBlue 662]

Seems that we're likely freerolling the villain on the turn.With the uncounterfeitable nut low, the second nut high, a spade for blocking, and around 16 outs to the likely nut high, I'm extremely tempted to try to get the money in on the turn in case the river scares the opponent.

[JacKingOff_suit 0]

Seems that we're likely freerolling the villain on the turn.With the uncounterfeitable nut low, the second nut high, a spade for blocking, and around 16 outs to the likely nut high, I'm extremely tempted to try to get the money in on the turn in case the river scares the opponent.

Duh? :)The nut high is 23456.The 2nd nut high is A2345.What I was trying to say was, the 2nd nut high is no where close to being good enough for high, if co indeed had 23456.

[MrNiceGuy 0]

Who calls and who raises and why?

I think he almost has to have A4 here, along with either a 6 or a spade draw (or both). (I guess 6432 is possible, or maybe he's bluffing with only the nut spade draw, but I think A4 is much more likely.) I can't see him potting with a naked A4. And I'm sure he would bet with A46 (which we're a little behind), but I'm not sure he would with A4 and a spade draw (which we're a little ahead of).So I'd just call the turn, and my river plan would be:Spade: Fold if he bets pot, call if he bets around 1/2 pot or less, check behind if he checks.Diamond or Board Pair: Pot if he checks, reraise pot if he betsOther: Call if he bets, check behind if he checks.

[Petoria 0]

He could just as easily put you on A2, and be trying to steal on the turn.Worst case scenario he has A246 with the nut flush draw, and a couple diamonds as well. Good cards: 1 J, 2 or 3 "2's", 2 or 3 "3's", 2 or 3 "5's", 7-9 diamonds....So you've got approx. 16 outs. 16/40* 3/4=.3 24/40*1/4=.15. Therefore your pot equity in the worst case scenario is 45%. If he's bluffing, let him keep bluffing. I think you should just call. If you make your boat on the river, it's fairly well disguised, and he's not folding the nut low anyway if you bet the pot on the river.

[JacKingOff_suit 0]

Worst case scenario he has A246 with the nut flush draw, and a couple diamonds as well. No need to worry about diamonds.No need to worry about spades if CO already had A46.If CO had only two spades drawing to the flush and good in one direction only, we are way ahead.If CO had a smaller set and good in one direction only, we are way way ahead.The only hand we need to worry about is if CO had A46x.Hero's flop min-raise eliminated the chance of CO's having A246 with spades, A246, not even A24x ns. but it didn't eleminate the chance of A46.But CO's preflop min-raise reduced the chance of him holding A46x. It's a hand that needs more players in the pot and his A46x is much better than SB and BB's average hands.What Smash didn't tell us was his observations about CO. I assumed him as a good player at 2k level, although fish is everywhere.Now assume all my reasonings were wrong, and CO indeed had A46.As I posted earlier, we were only 40/60 behind.If a scared card come on the river, we may not get paid off if we just called on the turn.A raise if not repotting is in order, in my opinion.

[Chamonyx 0]

Who calls and who raises and why?

I call.His pre-flop raise looks like a position raise, probably with A2xy, with at least one of xy being a wheel card.His flop bet in to you doesn't tell us much - any A2 will probably continue here. His call of your raise suggests that he maybe doesn't have spades, and he may well put you on A2s.With the 2 on the turn, his bet may be designed to test his read of your holding A2, or he may have had A24x, with x even being a 6. In the former category would be all the A23x and A25x hands. So I would put him 2:1 on a bluff here.If he is bluffing:If you raise back into him, he is going to fold and you take it here (700).If you just call, he may interpret this as weakness and fire a second barrell on the river if a blank hits. Or he may pay off a smaller bet of 100 or so.If you call and the river comes with a non-pairing spade, he may have a hand with which to bet into you, although him having spades is questionable. I think I call this bet if it comes, and expect to get at least half. If he doesn' t bet it, then I pot it, representing the hand that he has probably put me on.The only really bad possibility for you is if the river brings a non-diamond 4. Here you run the risk of him having the 6 in his hand and getting 1/4, but again I still call his bet.If he is not bluffing:You are only really worried about A46 and A4c. For these to do you any damage, the board must miss diamonds and pairs (27 outs) (or hit non-pairing spades (8 outs which are included in the 27)), which is pretty likely (27/44). With this in mind, if you bet back on the turn you may well end up getting put all-in with the worst of it. If you just call the turn, and call a bet on the river, your maximum loss will be 600, you will probably split, and you stand a 17/44 chance of winning 900.So, calling the turn helps you win the most and lose the least regardless of his hand.

[TGoldman 0]

Who calls and who raises and why?

I don't like having to play a guessing game on the river. As was mentioned, villain could just as easily have put you on A2, and be trying to steal on the turn. Or he could have another A4 and is assuming that his wheel is good. Smooth calling the turn with the intention to re-evaluate on the river puts us in a tricky situation if faced with a pot-sized bet. Making a bad fold on the river would be devastating to our EV. On the other hand, raising and getting it all-in on the turn (Assuming villain obliges) will at worst be a minor mistake. Giving villain the best possible hand something like As 4s 6d 7d gives hero 42.5% equity. That's a pretty good worst case scenerio, so I'd push.

[TJ_Eckleburg 0]

I think I'd pot the turn.I don't really have any good reasons why other than it looks to me like I have a monster.That's why I don't play 2k PLO8.