Tt With A Low Board

[TrueAce13 18]

Hero has been running 21/9/1 over 102 hands Villain has been running 28/17 over a small sample of 26 handsI had check raised villain in a previous hand with a bluff (not caught). I also took a pot off of him with Q9dd<AKo b/c he minbet and I flopped top pair. We played the hand soft. PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comSB ($23.25)BB ($24.85)UTG ($12.80)Hero (MP) ($31.60)Button ($26.35)Preflop: Hero is MP with 10, 101 fold, Hero raises to $1, 2 folds, BB raises to $2.50, Hero calls $1.50Flop: ($5.10) 2, 2, 6(2 players)BB bets $2, Hero calls $2Turn: ($9.10) 6(2 players)BB bets $3, Hero calls $3River: ($15.10) 3(2 players)BB checks, Hero?Do we bet for value on the river, do we check in case he has an overpair or set, or what do you guys think? I was wondering if I should raise either the flop or turn, but I had a weird feeling, I dunnoPlease comment on all streets

[mtdesmoines 3]

Hero has been running 21/9/1 over 102 hands Villain has been running 28/37 over a small sample of 26 handsI had check raised villain in a previous hand with a bluff (not caught). I also took a pot off of him with Q9dd<AKo b/c he minbet and I flopped top pair. We played the hand soft. PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comSB ($23.25)BB ($24.85)UTG ($12.80)Hero (MP) ($31.60)Button ($26.35)Preflop: Hero is MP with 10, 101 fold, Hero raises to $1, 2 folds, BB raises to $2.50, Hero calls $1.50Flop: ($5.10) 2, 2, 6(2 players)BB bets $2, Hero calls $2Turn: ($9.10) 6(2 players)BB bets $3, Hero calls $3River: ($15.10) 3(2 players)BB checks, Hero?Do we bet for value on the river, do we check in case he has an overpair or set, or what do you guys think? I was wondering if I should raise either the flop or turn, but I had a weird feeling, I dunnoPlease comment on all streets

I think I raise the flop. At the river, I'm 90% sure he's been floating AK AQ and has abandoned the hand ... either that or he's so slow-played a big hand that the check is a trap. No matter. Our only sensible bet left at the river is pretty much an all in, and it doesn't make sense with the line of the rest of the hand, so I don't think an all in is going to fold JJ or QQ etc. I guess we could stick $5 in on the river and get a call from an ace, but it's kind of a nonsense bet and I don't think it is profitable not knowing the villain very well.

[trystero 0]

I check behind; he's either got ace high, in which case he's folding almost always, or he's doing the "pot control" thing with an overpair. If he's got a hand like QQ then this board terrifies him; on the turn, he's losing to top pair, and now on the river the flush has hit...but I doubt he'll be able to fold to a shove...so no sense bluffing. Raising the flop makes this hand much easier to play, but I'm not sure it's the most profitable line, given that we're in position

[babylondonks 5]

I never raise that flop, you're just folding out everything that you beat, the only hands that may be sticking around to a raise would be AhKh, and obviously overpairs. Similar to the river, you'd have to bet/fold the river if you did bet, and the heart draw did get there which he may have decided to double barrel with. I think this is definately a check behind, if we bet any decent amount on the river we're basically commited as the BB has only one PSB left

[shpaget 0]

I never raise that flop, you're just folding out everything that you beat, the only hands that may be sticking around to a raise would be AhKh, and obviously overpairs. Similar to the river, you'd have to bet/fold the river if you did bet, and the heart draw did get there which he may have decided to double barrel with. I think this is definately a check behind, if we bet any decent amount on the river we're basically commited as the BB has only one PSB left

If you don't raise, you're letting a number of hands draw out on you. He may have you beat, or he may just be putting in a cont. bet...if you don't raise, you're letting him get to his draw...be it a heart, any overcard, or matching his pocket pair.Raising makes him pay to draw, and should define things more clearly. If you get repopped, you know where you stand, and then you just need to decide if he could have 77-99, or if you're beat.On the river...I'm not sure if he calls with anything you beat (eg. AK, 99)...but he might fold a few hands that beat you - perhaps JJ-KK.But if he's the type of guy who will call with ace high, then he's also calling with JJ-KK.

[trystero 0]

If you get repopped, you know where you stand, and then you just need to decide if he could have 77-99, or if you're beat.

How?

[king1305 0]

If you don't raise, you're letting a number of hands draw out on you. He may have you beat, or he may just be putting in a cont. bet...if you don't raise, you're letting him get to his draw...be it a heart, any overcard, or matching his pocket pair.Raising makes him pay to draw, and should define things more clearly. If you get repopped, you know where you stand, and then you just need to decide if he could have 77-99, or if you're beat.On the river...I'm not sure if he calls with anything you beat (eg. AK, 99)...but he might fold a few hands that beat you - perhaps JJ-KK.But if he's the type of guy who will call with ace high, then he's also calling with JJ-KK.

Raising for info is v bad.I'm fine with the call down line, this is WA/WB a lot, but I think we should be the river almost always here because his hand looks like big cards that missed sooooo much. I put out a small bet, $4-$5.Checking the river isn't horrible, but I think we can still get value from A high a lot.

[babylondonks 5]

If you don't raise, you're letting a number of hands draw out on you. He may have you beat, or he may just be putting in a cont. bet...if you don't raise, you're letting him get to his draw...be it a heart, any overcard, or matching his pocket pair.Raising makes him pay to draw, and should define things more clearly. If you get repopped, you know where you stand, and then you just need to decide if he could have 77-99, or if you're beat.On the river...I'm not sure if he calls with anything you beat (eg. AK, 99)...but he might fold a few hands that beat you - perhaps JJ-KK.But if he's the type of guy who will call with ace high, then he's also calling with JJ-KK.

I never understand this, why in the world would we want to define our own hand? It allows our opponents to play perfectly, it even allows them to have an easier time bluffing us. We're not raising a deuce on this flop, we're not raising a 6 on this flop, I don't think we've be raising AA/KK on this flop.I think the real question is how does villain have a higher PFR than VPIP?

[cubsfan44 0]

Challenge threaders owned this thread. Id bet like 1/3 pot on the river here. Ace high will pay you off quite a bit

[babylondonks 5]

Challenge threaders owned this thread. Id bet like 1/3 pot on the river here. Ace high will pay you off quite a bit

Like we always doWhat do we do to a shove given we'd be getting 3.5:1 on the call?

[cubsfan44 0]

Like we always doWhat do we do to a shove given we'd be getting 3.5:1 on the call?

Youd have to fold.

[David_Nicoson 1]

I'd probably raise the turn but check behind as played.Why would the villain give action with AJ+ after he's missed but not before?

[slimb0 0]

TrueAce13; so what did you do? did you check behind? I'd like to know what villain had =x

[BellaireDrew 2]

I think I raise the flop. At the river, I'm 90% sure he's been floating AK AQ and has abandoned the hand ... either that or he's so slow-played a big hand that the check is a trap. No matter. Our only sensible bet left at the river is pretty much an all in, and it doesn't make sense with the line of the rest of the hand, so I don't think an all in is going to fold JJ or QQ etc. I guess we could stick $5 in on the river and get a call from an ace, but it's kind of a nonsense bet and I don't think it is profitable not knowing the villain very well.

NO

I never raise that flop, you're just folding out everything that you beat, the only hands that may be sticking around to a raise would be AhKh, and obviously overpairs. Similar to the river, you'd have to bet/fold the river if you did bet, and the heart draw did get there which he may have decided to double barrel with. I think this is definately a check behind, if we bet any decent amount on the river we're basically commited as the BB has only one PSB left

Yes for the most part

If you don't raise, you're letting a number of hands draw out on you. He may have you beat, or he may just be putting in a cont. bet...if you don't raise, you're letting him get to his draw...be it a heart, any overcard, or matching his pocket pair.Raising makes him pay to draw, and should define things more clearly. If you get repopped, you know where you stand, and then you just need to decide if he could have 77-99, or if you're beat.On the river...I'm not sure if he calls with anything you beat (eg. AK, 99)...but he might fold a few hands that beat you - perhaps JJ-KK.But if he's the type of guy who will call with ace high, then he's also calling with JJ-KK.

<shakeshead> NO

Raising for info is v bad.I'm fine with the call down line, this is WA/WB a lot, but I think we should be the river almost always here because his hand looks like big cards that missed sooooo much. I put out a small bet, $4-$5.Checking the river isn't horrible, but I think we can still get value from A high a lot.

This

Challenge threaders owned this thread. Id bet like 1/3 pot on the river here. Ace high will pay you off quite a bit

Indeed

[David_Nicoson 1]

I'd probably raise the turn but check behind as played.Why would the villain give action with AJ+ after he's missed but not before?

A reason for this, after some more thought, is that when the villain faces a bet on the turn, he has to consider that he's facing another bet on the river. His pot odds are, really, shorter with this anticipation.I still like a turn raise.

[AimHigher 0]

I'd probably raise the turn but check behind as played.Why would the villain give action with AJ+ after he's missed but not before?

I'd think he'd be more likely to call a river bet with Ax than he would be to call a turn raise, wouldn't he? We can definitely put out a bet on the river in an attempt to get value from Ax, 44, 77 - 99. Maybe it sort of hinges on our image and how likely he is to float a turn raise with Ax.

[David_Nicoson 1]

If you are the villain in this hand with AK, do you pay off $5 on the river? What range do you put the hero on with this line? Keep in mind that you split with Ax.

[trystero 0]

He's never calling with an ace and he's snapping with overpairs. Usually the type of player who'll make the big ace-high call is one of two; the total donk, who cannot ever fold ace king, or the thinking-player who assigns you a beatable range. You don't have a beatable range, as every single hand which called a pf 3-bet and continued beyond the flop has ace-high beaten - even the flush hit.Betting here is very^29219 thin.

[David_Nicoson 1]

I think I raise the flop. At the river, I'm 90% sure he's been floating AK AQ and has abandoned the hand ... either that or he's so slow-played a big hand that the check is a trap. No matter. Our only sensible bet left at the river is pretty much an all in, and it doesn't make sense with the line of the rest of the hand, so I don't think an all in is going to fold JJ or QQ etc. I guess we could stick $5 in on the river and get a call from an ace, but it's kind of a nonsense bet and I don't think it is profitable not knowing the villain very well.

NO

I think this post deserves more than a one-word answer. What parts do you disagree with?

[BigRob1107 0]

with him bet bet betting I think you played it ok. He has JJ here alot IMO. Depending on player type and how he thinks about poker 88 and 99 could be in his range as well as AK, AQ type hands. as played I check back the river its hard to get called by worse and you are kind of turning your hand into a bluff. Depending on player types I think you should raise the turn for value vs players with wide ranges. Vs. a solid TAG c/c c/c is fine and if he barrels the river i'm mucking depening on reads and bet sizes.

[shpaget 0]

I never understand this, why in the world would we want to define our own hand? It allows our opponents to play perfectly, it even allows them to have an easier time bluffing us. We're not raising a deuce on this flop, we're not raising a 6 on this flop, I don't think we've be raising AA/KK on this flop.I think the real question is how does villain have a higher PFR than VPIP?

I meant it should help define his holdings, not yours.You also make the assumption that your opponent has the ability to play perfectly, or anything resembling it.Look, if you want to give your opponent free draws, go for it. If you're ahead, you're not miles ahead.Not sure why you wouldn't raise AA/KK or A6 on this flop.

[shpaget 0]

Challenge threaders owned this thread. Id bet like 1/3 pot on the river here. Ace high will pay you off quite a bit

That's the key.If he pays you off with AK, he also calls with JJ-AA. That's a net loss for you. And that's if he ALWAYS calls with AK.Does he reraise pf from the BB with AQ or worse? He doesn't have ANY Ace hand, he has a small set of Ace hands.And, if he calls the river with AK...does he call with 77-99? Logic says he should, but there are a strange number of players who would call with AK but fold 77. It's psychological.Though you need to know if villain will pay off Ax, you also need to know if he'll fold JJ-AA. Can he put you on A6? or a higher pair?I don't think he calls off ace high nearly as often as some people here think. How often does he call with AK/AQ? 80% of the time? 90? 30? He likely calls with JJ-AA well over 90% of the time...probably QQ-AA 95% of the time...and that's probably conservative.Your hand is middle of the road, and your likely long term situation is the times you get called by a worse hand are offset, if not outweighed, by the times you get called by a better hand. If you're betting the river, it's not for value, it's for fold equity...you're bluffing...you don't get called by a worse hand nearly as often as some people want to believe. And I don't think you have a lot of fold equity either.You also open the door to a bluff check/raise...because a bet by you could smell like a steal. If he check raises the river, can you call TT? Could you even call AA?

[AimHigher 0]

I think this post deserves more than a one-word answer. What parts do you disagree with?

If you make a petition boycotting 1 word strat posts, I'll sign it.

If you are the villain in this hand with AK, do you pay off $5 on the river? What range do you put the hero on with this line? Keep in mind that you split with Ax.

If I'm villain, do I think hero shows up with Ax often enough to call for a chop? Probably. That said, one of the leaks I am currently working on is paying off too many rivers.