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I am conflicted. With Mitt Romney making headway in the republican primaries, I have given some thought to whether or not I can vote for a mormon.Reason I can vote for Mitt:Seems like a good honest man.Most of his political values match mineIt would be cool to have a prez named MittHe's much more presidential than either Bush or Clinton.Reason's I might not vote for Mitt:Mormons have as one of their prophecies that they will control the US.Mormons believe that when they die they become a god and are given a new planet and 10,000 wives by Joseph Smith and get to make up any world they see fit. They need only learn the secret handshake and return Joe's secret handshake to get their prize.Mormons wear holy underwear, to protect them from evil spirits. In the past a good handgun was a viable substitute.Mormons have the highest rate of spousal abuse of any group in the US, there's some violence in their backyards.If Mitt gets the nomination, then the dems can make a lot of hay of the above negatives. Which could actually be good in the sense that people will be educated to what this cult teaches. Most people think mormons are just another flavor of Christianity. But then we get Hillary, which would possibly result in major catastrophy for the US and the world.So there's the rub.

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Mormons believe that when they die they become a god and are given a new planet and 10,000 wives by Joseph Smith and get to make up any world they see fit. They need only learn the secret handshake and return Joe's secret handshake to get their prize.Mormons wear holy underwear, to protect them from evil spirits. In the past a good handgun was a viable substitute.Mormons have the highest rate of spousal abuse of any group in the US, there's some violence in their backyards.
are all these true? if so, I may need to look into this whole mormon thing.
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are all these true? if so, I may need to look into this whole mormon thing.
I am not even touching the surface to the insanity that is the mormon religion.Read The God Makers I & II, or The Mormon Murders.Here is a saying the Mormons have:As man is, God once wasAs God is, man will become.There is a thing called blood atonement: Basically Jesus's blood is good, but it can't forgive you of some sins. So if you commit one of these sins ( leaving the mormon church for example) than a friend of yours owes it to you to slit your throat ear to ear. This will absolve you of your sins. This is only carried out by the uber devout mormons, like the ones that have mulitple wives types. They hired a NY marketing firm to help their image in the 70's here's a couple of 'suggestions':Stop saying if a black person converts to mormonism, his skin will become lighter until he finally will become white.Change the endowment ceremony (first ceremony all mormons go through); This is where they re-enact the Garden of Eden, and Satan gives Adam a fig leaf pattern undergarment and tells him that the fig leaf is the symbol of his (satan's) power. This undergarment is worn for the rest of the life of the believer. The most devout ones would only wash half their body so that there was never any second they were without.Get a copy of the book of mormon dated pre-1930s (I think) In it they have some of their characters talking about the book of Matthew chapter such and such verse such and such. They said this in 100 AD, but chapters and verses weren't added till the 1600's. so they had to change their holiest book because it was so sad.Remember how they raise the dead to convert them? There is documentation that Joseph Smith was kicked out of the Presbiterian church for practicing necromancy. This was right after he sold his services as a sooth sayer who would lead you to treasure by placing a stone under his hat and leading you to the spot you should dig. The book of mormon was given to Joe by an angel ( who actually was from another planet; Kolob) and in order to translate it, Joe put a stone on his head and translated it.There's a ton more, but this is some of what I remember.And to be clear, most mormons I meet are good people who do not know about this. Only 10% of all mormons are considered worthy to actually go to into their temple. Most of them just go to their stake.
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I am not even touching the surface to the insanity that is the mormon religion.
agreed, but the same standards of empiricism and logic you are using to disprove mormonism disproves christianity. you of course are using a double standard.mitt certainly > huckabee. from a science education perspective huckabee would be bush all over again, if not worse
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If Mitt gets the nomination, then the dems can make a lot of hay of the above negatives.
No no, democrats are the tolerant ones. Republicans are the jackasses that would make a huge deal about a candidate's religion.Also, what crow said. I don't find the mormon religion much more ridiculous than christianity.
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No no, democrats are the tolerant ones. Republicans are the jackasses that would make a huge deal about a candidate's religion.Also, what crow said. I don't find the mormon religion much more ridiculous than christianity.
Except, right now, as we speak, it's the liberal news media that can't stop talking about the fact that the word Mormon came up in his speech. What BG did was break it down- he didn't say, "Mormonism bad, Mitt Romney bad", he said, "Let me tell you exactly why I hesitate to choose a man that would choose this path." What is wrong with that? He didn't even say that Mitt in particular must be this devout, or anything. He just pointed out why Mormonism is a sad replacement for the truth. As far as democrats being more accepting, sure. Christianity is about following the principals that Christ brought. If that's ridiculous, ridicule away. I would bet that you couldn't even tell me biblically exactly what needs to take place on Sunday, what it signifies, and how it is to be done, which is so blatantly spoke of in the New Testament you would have to be blind to not know it. What I am saying is, christianity is only ridiculous if you don't know anything about it. If what you know you hear in forums that are largely atheist driven, or forums, period, you don't know christianity. If what you know comes from evangelicals on t.v.- you don't know christianity. If what you know comes in the form of Religion 101- you don't know christianity. You also probably never will, because these things are designed and driven by satan to make sure your opinion of christianity stays exactly where it is at. One thing I will say about satan, he is really good at what he does. Really, really good. He's been honing his skills for 2000+years, he better be good at this point. Honestly, this garbage just pisses me off. Tell me one thing that Christ taught, or any of the apostles, or Paul, or Timothy, tell me one thing that is ridiculous. One. One. One. Give me an example. Lets' talk about ideology, lets top talking about this horseshit whether or not there was a flood garbage, or who said who was standing where, lets talk about what you ACTUALLY know about christianity, the path. This should be good.
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Honestly, this garbage just pisses me off. Tell me one thing that Christ taught, or any of the apostles, or Paul, or Timothy, tell me one thing that is ridiculous. One. One. One. Give me an example.
Infinite punishment for not believing in Jesus. </discussion>
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Honestly, this garbage just pisses me off. Tell me one thing that Christ taught, or any of the apostles, or Paul, or Timothy, tell me one thing that is ridiculous. One.
that jesus was god incarnate. to someone who is not so deeply brainwashed by immersion in christianity that they are incapable of seeing it objectively (as you are) that claim is no less unsupported by logic or evidence - no less rediculous - than any mormon-specific tenet. think of it this way - not only atheists, but also most buddhists, hindus, muslims etc. view that claim the same way you view the claims of mormonism. an intelligent christian should take that alone as a sign that their belief may not necessarily be as logically and evidentially distinguished from other beliefs as they have convinced themselves.you are stuck looking through the tunnel vision of your own narrow christian perspective - why don't you for a change drop your blinders (drop your ego really) and try to imagine what fundamentalist christianity looks like from an outside perspective?
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that jesus was god incarnate. to someone who is not so deeply brainwashed by immersion in christianity that they are incapable of seeing it objectively (as you are) that claim is no less unsupported by logic or evidence - no less rediculous - than any mormon-specific tenet. think of it this way - not only atheists, but also most buddhists, hindus, muslims etc. view that claim the same way you view the claims of mormonism. an intelligent christian should take that alone as a sign that their belief may not necessarily be as logically and evidentially distinguished from other beliefs as they have convinced themselves.you are stuck looking through the tunnel vision of your own narrow christian perspective - why don't you for a change drop your blinders (drop your ego really) and try to imagine what fundamentalist christianity looks like from an outside perspective?
Jesus wasn't God incarnate. That's not even supported scriptually. Son of God. Sits on Gods right hand. Seperate entity altogether. Next. Please, try and keep it about the ideology.
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Virgins giving birth?
Again not an ideology. The 2 things that have been mentioned so far require the ultimate in faith, but are not the actual IDEAS that Christ taught us to follow. What are they? Which ones are ridiculous? Crow loves to think of me with blinders on, but the opposite is true. You would be hard pressed to find a religion I haven't studied, and now know more about Atheism than I ever did by hanging out here. So, let's talk about what Jesus taught, and why it was or wasn't perfect. Seriously. One of the main problems here is that you stand outside the Chocolate factory but can't open the door.
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Jesus wasn't God incarnate. That's not even supported scriptually. Son of God. Sits on Gods right hand. Seperate entity altogether.
That's more Mormon theology than traditional Christianity... Scripture may be able to be interpreted that way, but crow was right in saying "jesus was god incarnate," because that's what most fundamental Christians believe.
Again not an ideology. The 2 things that have been mentioned so far require the ultimate in faith, but are not the actual IDEAS that Christ taught us to follow.
In order for the "actual IDEAS Christ taught us to follow" to be true in the first place the theology mentioned by crow and lord must be true.... so what Christ taught requires faith anyway.But I do wonder how someone can find traditional Christianity as ridiculous as Mormonism...
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That's more Mormon theology than traditional Christianity... Scripture may be able to be interpreted that way, but crow was right in saying "jesus was god incarnate," because that's what most fundamental Christians believe.
This was argued centuries before the church of latter day saints was institutionalized.
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Again not an ideology. The 2 things that have been mentioned so far require the ultimate in faith, but are not the actual IDEAS that Christ taught us to follow. What are they? Which ones are ridiculous? Crow loves to think of me with blinders on, but the opposite is true. You would be hard pressed to find a religion I haven't studied, and now know more about Atheism than I ever did by hanging out here. So, let's talk about what Jesus taught, and why it was or wasn't perfect. Seriously. One of the main problems here is that you stand outside the Chocolate factory but can't open the door.
Isn't one of the main reasons to listen and follow Christ's teaching that he was the son of god, born of a virgin (which rules out original sin), who is able to teach and show us god's way? Without these beliefs then Christ just becomes another person in history who taught lessons on morality and leading a good life. He becomes no different than Moses, Aristotle or Plato.I don't think anyone is going to argue that when Christ repeated the commandments of "Thou shalt not steal" or "Thou shalt kill" he was wrong but these are not lessons or ideas unique to Christianity these are beliefs held across almost all religions and by athiests as well. I think crow's original point was that most faiths have beliefs that seem crazy and irrational to outsiders of that faith and to an atheist the irrational beliefs of Christianity are no more or less irrational than those of Mormonism.
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Infinite punishment for not believing in Jesus. </discussion>
That isn't even the half of it, when you really get into it. Belief alone is not enough. After that you actually have to follow what he taught. (Faith without works is dead.What I am looking to do is to look past what the things you must except on faith alone: Jesus being the son of God, died for your sins,rose from the dead, born of a virgin, if you don't follow him, eternal damnation. Those aren't so much the ideas that he taught, as they cannot be discussed in anyway that gets anywhere. I want to talk about the actual doctrine, and so far, nobody.
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This is the problem with using the term Christianity, there is always confusion as to who can be defined as Christian.

Christianity is about following the principals that Christ brought.
If this is true that means Mormons rightfully can call themselves Christians, as well as Evangelists whom Lois seems to think are motivated by Lucifer. As a child I grew up Catholic and was told never to describe myself as a "Christian." Only "Protestants" were viewed as Christians (another general term that seemed to me to encompass Baptists, Lutherans, Methodists, etc.). Just like Shiite's and Suni's, Christianity is composed of different sects that have polar views.
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No no, democrats are the tolerant ones. Republicans are the jackasses that would make a huge deal about a candidate's religion.
I am soooo saving this to remind you of this in the coming days
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agreed, but the same standards of empiricism and logic you are using to disprove mormonism disproves christianity. you of course are using a double standard.mitt certainly > huckabee. from a science education perspective huckabee would be bush all over again, if not worse
You've convinced me, I'm definately voting for Huckabee. four times
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Infinite punishment for not accepting Jesus's sacrifice. </discussion>
had to fix your post.Even the devil believes in Jesus, doesn't get you in.
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Isn't one of the main reasons to listen and follow Christ's teaching that he was the son of god, born of a virgin (which rules out original sin), who is able to teach and show us god's way? Without these beliefs then Christ just becomes another person in history who taught lessons on morality and leading a good life. He becomes no different than Moses, Aristotle or Plato.I don't think anyone is going to argue that when Christ repeated the commandments of "Thou shalt not steal" or "Thou shalt kill" he was wrong but these are not lessons or ideas unique to Christianity these are beliefs held across almost all religions and by athiests as well. I think crow's original point was that most faiths have beliefs that seem crazy and irrational to outsiders of that faith and to an atheist the irrational beliefs of Christianity are no more or less irrational than those of Mormonism.
There is alot more than the Ten commandments going on in the New Testament. A whole lot more- have you even read the bible? What does he teach about how one should treat ones wife? How many wives should you have? When is it o.k. to take another? Do these rules apply to women as well? What does he tell children to do? What is there reward for doing so? Heck, if you want, ask ME a question about what is taught. There wasn't much that wasn't covered. I know what Crows points are, it's all he's got. Anyone can look at what you must accept on faith and just say, "No. I can't do that, I just cannot see myself beliving that." Fair enough, but while they are a part of the story, it's not even 5% of the actual religion.
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Isn't one of the main reasons to listen and follow Christ's teaching that he was the son of god, born of a virgin (which rules out original sin), who is able to teach and show us god's way? Without these beliefs then Christ just becomes another person in history who taught lessons on morality and leading a good life. He becomes no different than Moses, Aristotle or Plato.I don't think anyone is going to argue that when Christ repeated the commandments of "Thou shalt not steal" or "Thou shalt kill" he was wrong but these are not lessons or ideas unique to Christianity these are beliefs held across almost all religions and by athiests as well. I think crow's original point was that most faiths have beliefs that seem crazy and irrational to outsiders of that faith and to an atheist the irrational beliefs of Christianity are no more or less irrational than those of Mormonism.
Well said regarding Christ.However, the Trinity and Diety of Christ is a difficult doctrine to explain and or comprhend, this is not the case with the belief that you get to have 10,000 wives that you get impregnate while you get your own planet to be god over. One is deeply signifigant, the other is largely proof that Joe Smith was a horndog.Christianity does have stumbling blocks, Christ being the greatest one. Before I made a decision to become a Christian, I worried whether I was getting into one of many cults, they all said theirs was the way. Christianity has proven itself to me, the others I found huge enough falsehoods to discount them.I can understand why people want to not believe, there are things that I believe that are difficult. God showed me enough to let me get past the hard stuff. I don't have all the answers ( about the Bible, the rest of life I rock) but I am cool with what God tells me.
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This is the problem with using the term Christianity, there is always confusion as to who can be defined as Christian.If this is true that means Mormons rightfully can call themselves Christians, as well as Evangelists whom Lois seems to think are motivated by Lucifer. As a child I grew up Catholic and was told never to describe myself as a "Christian." Only "Protestants" were viewed as Christians (another general term that seemed to me to encompass Baptists, Lutherans, Methodists, etc.). Just like Shiite's and Suni's, Christianity is composed of different sects that have polar views.
Um, no. What did Christ teach? Catholocism and mormonism and thousands of other religions directly contradict what Christ brought to this very day. Defining a christian is easy. Find people whos one purpose is to follow the doctrine of christ. There, you have christians. People who accepted a new doctrine from another planet given to a drunk dude who was into necromancy, a doctrine that directly conflicts with Christs on many levels, or people who accept a doctrine that teaches priests not to marry, or puts a man in a position to be bowed down to, which conflicts with christianity as well, well, they wouldn't be christians. They would be whatever name that religion gave them, and as Christ said, be following the doctrine of Satan. Of course Evangelist are motivated by Satan- I mean, look at the confusion that is caused by these idiots. Getting involved in Politics, taking public stances on Homosexuality like it's the person that should be condemned. (It's not.) They make the landscape so hard for ACTUAL christians to teach because the face that is put out there is so ugly. Do you think that is God at work? Or, the force that roams this earth until Christ returns, the force that's one job is to take souls to hell?
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Well said regarding Christ.However, the Trinity and Diety of Christ is a difficult doctrine to explain and or comprhend, this is not the case with the belief that you get to have 10,000 wives that you get impregnate while you get your own planet to be god over. One is deeply signifigant, the other is largely proof that Joe Smith was a horndog.Christianity does have stumbling blocks, Christ being the greatest one. Before I made a decision to become a Christian, I worried whether I was getting into one of many cults, they all said theirs was the way. Christianity has proven itself to me, the others I found huge enough falsehoods to discount them.I can understand why people want to not believe, there are things that I believe that are difficult. God showed me enough to let me get past the hard stuff. I don't have all the answers ( about the Bible, the rest of life I rock) but I am cool with what God tells me.
Well said. I had to edit this, because I almost missed what you said. The Trinity is difficult to explain, really hard to understand even biblically, because it doesn't exist. The scriptures must be used incorrectly to get to that conclusion, which makes it hard for people to read and see it. To the naked eyes it seems like 3 separate entities, with purpose and jobs if you will all of there own, and then religion gets in there and screws it up unrecognizable.
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