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Deepish In $55 70k


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Deep in the 70k.Important StacksBlinds: 600/1200 +antesMe: 105kVillian A: $24kVillian B: $50kI open MP to $2199 with JJVillian A shovesVillian B overshovesMe?Ranges?What do you think?

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Deep in the 70k.Important StacksBlinds: 600/1200 +antesMe: 105kVillian A: $24kVillian B: $50kI open MP to $2199 with JJVillian A shovesVillian B overshovesMe?Ranges?What do you think?
Without any info on how they have been playing its hard to say but me i would fold
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Blah sick spot....I think shoving range is something like 88+, KJs+, ATs+ if he is somewhat competent Over shoving range though I think is pretty shrong and be like TT+,KQs+, AQ and AKI think that it is a fold...but knowing me, I can't get away from picture pockets

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Deep in the 70k.Important StacksBlinds: 600/1200 +antesMe: 105kVillian A: $24kVillian B: $50kI open MP to $2199 with JJVillian A shovesVillian B overshovesMe?Ranges?What do you think?
Fold.A=AQ+, 77+B=AK, TT+B is shoving 40BBs here w/ a player all-in. I tend to err on the side of caution in such a situation.
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lol, as I've already said over aim:A: 77+, A8s+, ATo+, KJo+, KTs+, QJs, JTsB: TT+, AJs+, AQo+, KQs maybeI think these are prob even tighter than they actually are but regardless it's a pretty big leak to fold here.

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Yes my fine little friend! I was hoping for more discussion before you posted. But you gave the answer that I knew to be correct, I just needed to confirm it.It's funny, people have similar ranges listed that you do and they still say fold. My leak is that iso shove. I instantly think ACES. It's a call all day long.I could have added table position. I was late MP, short villian was CO or Button, other villian was BB.JJ is way ahead here of the ranges and priced in. Plus my tournament is not at risk by calling. This hand is the difference between a deep run fizzling out in 20 something or a FT.

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Deep in the 70k.Important StacksBlinds: 600/1200 +antesMe: 105kVillian A: $24kVillian B: $50kI open MP to $2199 with JJVillian A shovesVillian B overshovesMe?Ranges?What do you think?
you opened to 2199 huh?
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If blinds are 600/1200 how did you raise to 2199? Regardless I would probably muck but not happily. The times we're ahead we most probably aren't vastly ahead and the times we're behind we are crushed. Meh the only thing that might swing me towards call is the fact that we have such a nice stack that we can afford to lose and still have a good amount of play, but in the end I think I probably still fold.

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Also have you no reads whatsoever on villains? What are you doing while you should be paying attention in this tournament? at least get an HUD open so you can have some stats to help influence a decision here...

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Also have you no reads whatsoever on villains? What are you doing while you should be paying attention in this tournament? at least get an HUD open so you can have some stats to help influence a decision here...
HAHAHAHABoth players were basic TAG. Villian B made some questionable three bets but nothing outrageous.
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HAHAHAHABoth players were basic TAG. Villian B made some questionable three bets but nothing outrageous.
All the more reason to dumpity-dump-dump those fishhooks...Why would either of them shove for that much (well, especially the over shover) without a big hand here if they were basic TAG players? Seems a no-brainer to me..
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All the more reason to dumpity-dump-dump those fishhooks...Why would either of them shove for that much (well, especially the over shover) without a big hand here if they were basic TAG players? Seems a no-brainer to me..
Understandable. Cuz that's what I did. With the amount of money in that pot and the hand ranges which Tehtoe is spot on with, it's a clear call. Insta-Call more than likely. As he talked me through it, he said, what are those guys thinking? Big stack opens standard from MP. My range is almost ATC because I have been active and I can push people around. Shorty shoves exactly the range below I believe. He thinks that he can pick up that smallish pot, he can't flat and set mine. BB knows this. He wants to isolate the shover because his range holds up well against a huge amount of hands that the shorty could hold plus gets me out of the pot unless I have an absolute monster - AA, KK, QQ, AK.
lol, as I've already said over aim:A: 77+, A8s+, ATo+, KJo+, KTs+, QJs, JTsB: TT+, AJs+, AQo+, KQs maybeI think these are prob even tighter than they actually are but regardless it's a pretty big leak to fold here.
I seriously tanked and cringed when I hit the fold button because I know it was super nitty and the wrong move. Not being results oriented here at all. But Tehtoe's range is perfect. And when you think it through the way he did, it is almost common sense. Maybe he will enlighten us with that thought process again... or maybe not.Calling there gets you to the FT if you hold up. And you aren't even crippled with a bunch of big blinds if you are unlucky - unlucky as in outdrawn or the rare over pair.
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You're only gonna win this pot roughly 35% of the time against those players ranges, and you're only getting around 1.2 to 1 on your money....pretty cut and dry case here

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I think it's 47k to win 77k which is not 1.2:1. That is complicated a little by sidepots but I guess that doesn't really matter. 77/47 ~11/7 ~ 1.6: 1Also we win around 38% of the time.CalllllllllIf you win you'll have all the chips in the worlddddd

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I think Tehtoe's ranges are a bit too loose without any knowledge of the players. Then you throw in that they have both been playing basic TAG and I think you have to tighten up those ranges.

You're only gonna win this pot roughly 35% of the time against those players ranges, and you're only getting around 1.2 to 1 on your money....pretty cut and dry case here
1.6: 1Also we win around 38% of the time.CalllllllllIf you win you'll have all the chips in the worlddddd
Whatever those exact numbers are, even if HighwayStar is right about them we hardly have anything invested in the pot and I don't feel the need to gamble for those chips is really present here. I think saying we win 38% of the time is being optimistic too. And sure if we win we have a ton of chips, but dude look at your stack. You already have a ton of chips so whatever you've been doing has been working fine, there's no need to risk half of them right here. Do I think calling is terrible? No. I think its close but I'm very much in favor of folding here.
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If I remember correctly A was on the button nd B was in the small blind?I'd say A shoves something like 44+, A8s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KJo+and I'd say B shoves something like88+,AJs+,AQo+Jacks has 39.331% equity aginst those 2 ranges. You can tighten them up but it's not gonna go below 37% easily unless 47k dude is a meganit and is only isoing about 3%.Pot odds are around 1.63 : 1 which means we need around 37.3% to call.I guess it's not a huge edge, but for that many chips deep in this MTT I think I take it all day.

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I think Tehtoe's ranges are a bit too loose without any knowledge of the players. Then you throw in that they have both been playing basic TAG and I think you have to tighten up those ranges. Whatever those exact numbers are, even if HighwayStar is right about them we hardly have anything invested in the pot and I don't feel the need to gamble for those chips is really present here. I think saying we win 38% of the time is being optimistic too. And sure if we win we have a ton of chips, but dude look at your stack. You already have a ton of chips so whatever you've been doing has been working fine, there's no need to risk half of them right here. Do I think calling is terrible? No. I think its close but I'm very much in favor of folding here.
You could probably afford to fold this in a smaller stakes tournament wherea) your edge overall is largerB) the ranges may be tighter - especially the SB.However in a $55 MTT TAG does not mean nit. I'd label myself a TAG and I'm gonna be shoving those 2 spots with the ranges I put above (probably - give or take a couple of hands). Faced with this edge for that many chips I just can't pass it up.I think my calling range here is gonna be around TT+ and AQ+. AQo and TT/99 are right on the border. YOu could argue that sticking it in with KQs in this spot could be better than sticking in AJ or 99.edit - nm, my instincts were wrong about that. 99 is a pretty bad call here, KQs is terrible, TT is not good. AJo/AQo are pretty bad, even AQs isn't great. AK is good.So a good calling range here is JJ+, AK.
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You could probably afford to fold this in a smaller stakes tournament wherea) your edge overall is largerB) the ranges may be tighter - especially the SB.However in a $55 MTT TAG does not mean nit. I'd label myself a TAG and I'm gonna be shoving those 2 spots with the ranges I put above (probably - give or take a couple of hands). Faced with this edge for that many chips I just can't pass it up.I think my calling range here is gonna be around TT+ and AQ+. AQo and TT/99 are right on the border. YOu could argue that sticking it in with KQs in this spot could be better than sticking in AJ or 99.edit - nm, my instincts were wrong about that. 99 is a pretty bad call here, KQs is terrible, TT is not good. AJo/AQo are pretty bad, even AQs isn't great. AK is good.So a good calling range here is JJ+, AK.
Well like I said it depends a bit on the range you give them, which I think is tighter but thats splitting hairs a bit math-wise. You showed that the edge is close, also like I said. I lean toward fold, you call; I guess it's just about style/strategy at some point. I said I don't think calling is terrible but IMO its not a risk I would want to take here. I appreciate your thought processes and explanation tho.
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You could probably afford to fold this in a smaller stakes tournament wherea) your edge overall is largerB) the ranges may be tighter - especially the SB.However in a $55 MTT TAG does not mean nit. I'd label myself a TAG and I'm gonna be shoving those 2 spots with the ranges I put above (probably - give or take a couple of hands). Faced with this edge for that many chips I just can't pass it up.I think my calling range here is gonna be around TT+ and AQ+. AQo and TT/99 are right on the border. YOu could argue that sticking it in with KQs in this spot could be better than sticking in AJ or 99.edit - nm, my instincts were wrong about that. 99 is a pretty bad call here, KQs is terrible, TT is not good. AJo/AQo are pretty bad, even AQs isn't great. AK is good.So a good calling range here is JJ+, AK.
This is a pretty accurate post.My ranges aren't great in these spots...but I am prob folding TT, 100% calling with QQ, and JJ i am wishywashy but calling more often than folding.
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I think the pot odds I used were based on 500/1000, even if they weren't I think the same calling range applies although Jacks becomes closer to borderline.Looking at it all again, TT would be a pretty awful call (although I probably would have called it off before analysing it)

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I think the pot odds I used were based on 500/1000, even if they weren't I think the same calling range applies although Jacks becomes closer to borderline.Looking at it all again, TT would be a pretty awful call (although I probably would have called it off before analysing it)
lol...Thats where we probably differ. I would definitely call with QQ and I'm sure I'd fold TT, but JJ is that 'tweener hand. It can go either way and it can reasoned well enough to call or to fold.
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Well the reason I like the argument for calling is that we are in the final 30ish. All that matters at this point is the FT and with enough chips to win. So with that in mind and knowing blinds are going up, antes will start hurting, and we cant expect many premiums before FT bubble, I think its a call. CL is around 385k at this point and a bunch over 200. Even though I have a lot of chips, above avg. there are a bunch of stacks over me. At this point in the tourny I am playing to win, not just step up in payouts cuz they don't matter.My goal at this point is to win 12k. Not $600 for bubbling the FT.Next time this exact situation comes up, I call.

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I mean the math shows it's a profitable call, if we do get it in and lose we still have 50 bbs, so I can't really see why you wouldn't get it in here.

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