breto42 0 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Daniel,What's up, I played with you in Costa Rica at the Bodog event a few months ago and you couldn't have been a cooler guy- alright, enough jock sniffin...but I remember you saying a while back that you picked up a "blinking" tell of yours in season 1 of HSP. This season- a buddy of mine and I were discussing how you have checked in the dark a few times but only when you have a weak hand and feel you are behind pre-flop. Why would you give that info away by checking in the dark? Your reasons for doing are probably over my head but that seems like something I have noticed this season. Thanks.bret Link to post Share on other sites
loggerhead 0 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 How would he know he was weak if he checked in the dark? Link to post Share on other sites
Wandigo 1 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 How would he know he was weak if he checked in the dark?I believe he's referring to checking before he sees the cards on the flop. Link to post Share on other sites
chester97 0 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 I believe he's referring to checking before he sees the cards on the flop.no no, he checked dark from the cutoff. haven't you played poker before? Link to post Share on other sites
FourFlusher 0 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 The blinkie thing was pointed out by somebody at this forum.I don't remember who said it, but, a week or two later Daniel acknowledged it. Link to post Share on other sites
Yoda 1 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 How would he know he was weak if he checked in the dark? Link to post Share on other sites
breto42 0 Posted July 19, 2006 Author Share Posted July 19, 2006 no no, he checked dark from the cutoff. haven't you played poker before?nice response, but to answer your question I have played a hand or two- but probably not as many as you Link to post Share on other sites
chester97 0 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 nice response, but to answer your question I have played a hand or two- but probably not as many as youum, did you see who i was quoting? thanks for the answer anyways. always nice to get some fan mail. Link to post Share on other sites
Wandigo 1 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 no no, he checked dark from the cutoff. haven't you played poker before?Must've read it wrong, I thought the scenario was DN checking before the flop, but knowing what cards he had. Link to post Share on other sites
chester97 0 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Must've read it wrong, I thought the scenario was DN checking before the flop, but knowing what cards he had.naw i was just joshin ya. i need to put the (sw) to better use i guess. Link to post Share on other sites
Wandigo 1 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 naw i was just joshin ya. i need to put the (sw) to better use i guess.Now I'm totally confused.*slowly steps away from thread* Link to post Share on other sites
Actuary 3 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 pm Daniel.it's fasteror DNA4Ever Link to post Share on other sites
breto42 0 Posted July 19, 2006 Author Share Posted July 19, 2006 Now I'm totally confused.*slowly steps away from thread*yea, it's very simple- it has been when he was heads up in a pot Link to post Share on other sites
Real Deal 0 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 generally checking in the dark would imply he looked at his hand, and is in early position/first to act and checks before the flop or turn or river is turned over.So in this case he checked the flop in the dark thus giving away that he has a weak hand.That's all.Good point but I would think most checks in the dark kind of imply that.However if you hit the flop large the check in the dark just set a very nice trap.Especially against an aggessive player. Link to post Share on other sites
76clubs 0 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Damn, I bet the Big gamers were pissed at the guy who told daniel about the blinking tell! I know I would be... Link to post Share on other sites
iveyfan30 0 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Damn, I bet the Big gamers were pissed at the guy who told daniel about the blinking tell! I know I would be...qft Link to post Share on other sites
NOFX_PUNK 0 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 generally checking in the dark would imply he looked at his hand, and is in early position/first to act and checks before the flop or turn or river is turned over.So in this case he checked the flop in the dark thus giving away that he has a weak hand.That's all.Good point but I would think most checks in the dark kind of imply that.However if you hit the flop large the check in the dark just set a very nice trap.Especially against an aggessive player.It can go either way, I like to check in the dark with a strong hand as it almost forces ur opponent to bet regardless of their holding, otherwise they are effectively giving u the pot on the turn. With a strong hand u are able to either CR the flop or bet the turn with it looking like an obvious bluff. Just my $0.02 Link to post Share on other sites
Real Deal 0 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 It can go either way, I like to check in the dark with a strong hand as it almost forces ur opponent to bet regardless of their holding, otherwise they are effectively giving u the pot on the turn. With a strong hand u are able to either CR the flop or bet the turn with it looking like an obvious bluff. Just my $0.02True true. Why I said "kind of" because it could go either way. But when they see the shell on the turn or RR on the flop it slows em down or draws serious flags.But at those stakes, playing with those players I would think they could see through those plays.What do you think?The check blind pre flop then a CR or huge shell on the turn play work with top pros?I woudn't think so. Maybe it depends which pro and who does the move.Mike the mouth does it and I'm IN THERE! What if Todd made it???? Tough call. Link to post Share on other sites
blakheart 3 Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 ok, I don't play as high as Daniel, but I will try to explain the check in the dark thing. It is used to not let your opponent get a read on your hand when you are out of position. In a decent game with resonable players the preflop raiser will raise after the flop about 60% of the time if it is checked to him on the flop. By checking in the dark DN is inviting the player in position to act first, trying to steal late position. If the villian checks behind. Daniel has info, and the villian has no info on Daniel. If he bets, Daniel can now evaulate hip hand with more info.This play works best against aggressive players. It can work with any starting hands, with a monster you are hoping your opponent has a good enough hand to continue. With weak holdings, you may get a free card to draw longer. Daniel has countered this move in the past by betting in the dark. I like that a lot becuase it again gives no info but puts your opponent to a decision. Link to post Share on other sites
Real Deal 0 Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 It is used to not let your opponent get a read on your hand when you are out of position. In a decent game with resonable players the preflop raiser will raise after the flop about 60% of the time if it is checked to him on the flop. By checking in the dark DN is inviting the player in position to act first, trying to steal late position. If the villian checks behind. Daniel has info, and the villian has no info on Daniel. If he bets, Daniel can now evaulate hip hand with more info.I'm not sure you would have more info by checking in the dark here. If your opponent bet the flop you may still not know where you are since as you mentioned more often than not he will do so. However by you not checking in the dark, and seeing the flop and then firing now you have put your opponent in a difficult spot, even if he is an aggressive player. He may slow down the rest of the way fearing a check raise. I'm not sure you would draw any longer with the check in the dark. I think their could be an argument for both.Again the question though, do top players see through this play.I'm thinking they don't even consider the fact that you checked dark and play their the same way. Link to post Share on other sites
Jeepster80125 0 Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Damn, I bet the Big gamers were pissed at the guy who told daniel about the blinking tell! I know I would be...If some amateur can pick up on such an easy tell, what on earth makes you think that the "Big Gamers" haven't picked up on and exploited this tell? For you to assume that they learned of that tell here is simply ludacris.Good luck. Link to post Share on other sites
Real Deal 0 Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 For you to assume that they learned of that tell here is simply ludacris.No they didn't say that but by pointing it out to DN and him recognize it and stop doing it may be a -EV to them. Link to post Share on other sites
breto42 0 Posted July 22, 2006 Author Share Posted July 22, 2006 It is used to not let your opponent get a read on your hand when you are out of position. In a decent game with resonable players the preflop raiser will raise after the flop about 60% of the time if it is checked to him on the flop. By checking in the dark DN is inviting the player in position to act first, trying to steal late position. If the villian checks behind. Daniel has info, and the villian has no info on Daniel. If he bets, Daniel can now evaulate hip hand with more info.I'm not sure you would have more info by checking in the dark here. If your opponent bet the flop you may still not know where you are since as you mentioned more often than not he will do so. However by you not checking in the dark, and seeing the flop and then firing now you have put your opponent in a difficult spot, even if he is an aggressive player. He may slow down the rest of the way fearing a check raise. I'm not sure you would draw any longer with the check in the dark. I think their could be an argument for both.Again the question though, do top players see through this play.I'm thinking they don't even consider the fact that you checked dark and play their the same way. Heads up and I call a raise out of position. If I check in the dark and then the original raiser checks- I'm not sure if gives any info. Is he a weak player and doesn't bet to take it down? Is he trapping because he flopped a monster? Now it's back to me after the turn and I bet. He flats calls? Now what? Tough to know exactly where you're at. I guess that's where the top pros reading ability comes in play.What a great game Link to post Share on other sites
ricker 0 Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 ok, I don't play as high as Daniel, but I will try to explain the check in the dark thing. It is used to not let your opponent get a read on your hand when you are out of position. In a decent game with resonable players the preflop raiser will raise after the flop about 60% of the time if it is checked to him on the flop. By checking in the dark DN is inviting the player in position to act first, trying to steal late position. If the villian checks behind. Daniel has info, and the villian has no info on Daniel. If he bets, Daniel can now evaulate hip hand with more info.This play works best against aggressive players. It can work with any starting hands, with a monster you are hoping your opponent has a good enough hand to continue. With weak holdings, you may get a free card to draw longer. Daniel has countered this move in the past by betting in the dark. I like that a lot becuase it again gives no info but puts your opponent to a decision.Great explanation man...that really gave me some ammo for the next time I'm at the poker table...no SW intended either Link to post Share on other sites
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