How Do You Get Reads in Online Poker?

[mk 11]

I was watching Daniel play on TV in a WPT event the other day and we all know he's one of the best in the world at getting reads on people, but this was just ridiculous. I mean, he played about 10 hands in a row perfectly, i.e. the exact same way he would have if he could've seen his opponents cards.I was wondering if anyone had tips for getting reads on people in online rooms and tourneys. I find it incredibly difficult to remember who played what hand which way, etc... It's just so impersonal. I have a really hard time putting people on hands. Help?

[FrankB 0]

I really don't rely on physical tells very often anyway. The best way to get better at picking up online "tells" is to really continue to be "mentally" involved in every hand even if your not playing it. Phil Hellmuth mentions in his book that he likes to play a game in his head where he tries to guess players hole cards when he is not in the hand. If you practice doing that often enough, after awhile you will start to pick up players betting patterns. These are the greatest online tells there are. Trying to figure out how players play "specific" hands is difficult if not impossible. I find it easier to pick up on how a player will "generally" play his hands IE: He plays big pairs a certain way. This is how he plays overcards...this is how he plays when he has top pair...or this is how he plays straight/flush draws. When he was bluffing, what kind of hand was he bluffing with? Did he have any outs at all? You will find that by getting really mentally involved with each hand that you will start to see repetition. When you see something again and again and again you will remember it, and before you know it you've picked up a betting pattern which you can now use to your advantage. Every player in the world has at least one tell....they bet.I like this thread. I'm very interested to see others perspectives...please add more info guys/gals!!

[somnambulist 0]

Here is a quote from a very nice site about online poker: www.godfreydanielspoker.com"Tip Two: Online tells: The most important tells in online poker revolve around betting speed. The easiest ones to pick up are the "dramatic pause" tells. A long pause followed by a bet usually means the player is strong, and wants you to think he is weak. A long pause followed by a check usually indicates a weak hand. This player either wants you to check so he can get a free card, or wants you to think he has a strong enough hand to "think" about betting. You'll rarely be check-raised by anyone who took a long time to check, it's not a normal betting pattern. When check-raising most players want everything to look as normal as possible to help make sure you'll put in a bet before they spring the trap. If you do get a check-raise from a player who paused heavily before the original check, be very careful.Tip Three: Stop Using the Auto-Buttons: These buttons that automatically register a check/bet/raise are available on all good poker sites. Don't use them. The check/fold to any bet and check/call any bet can cost you a pot. Since this button registers your play almost instantly, use of this option makes it obvious to any observant player that you don't have a hand strong enough to bet. If a player before you checks and then you check instantly, you run the risk of drawing a bet from a player who would have checked if you'd taken a little time to play allowing you to see a free card. When betting you should either wait for the same period every time, or mix it up randomly. Don't use the buttons, just have a plan of some kind and stick to it, so you don't vary according to the strength of your hand. Bright players will figure you out pretty quickly if you don't actively avoid betting pattern tells."Make notes on other players (this is especially convenient if there is a notes function built into the software) - you'll be amazed what a difference this makes. I have collected notes on hundreds of players, ranging from just one word (maniac, rock etc) to more detailed observations. Just knowing if someone is on my buddy list can make a difference between a call and a fold on occasions I'm finding my online tells are getting better and better just that too often I get the tell and don't act on it and make dubious calls/raises only to find out I was right. ..

[tekn0wledg 0]

I always watch the betting patterns of my opponents. How often are they trying to steal, what types of hands are they playing in which position. What hands to they raise with pre-flop. I'm also playing numerous tables, so I don't have 100% attention on everything, but I do notice trends and I like to end them as quickly as possible. If I notice someone taking down alot of pots pre-flop, I'll come over the top of him with nothing and watch him fold. Or, I'll be aggressive with him if I hit something and make him think twice about his actions thereforth.The pauses while checking/betting and such are standard acting plays. Figure out what your opponent wants you to do, and do the opposite. I've used these to my advantage numerous times, a quick bet bluff works better than a pause bluff etc, because your opponent assumes you have a legit hand. So pay attention to these factors and figure out what your opponent really means by his bet and time to act. A 'raise any' button checked will create a seemingly forceful raise by a player, this often represents a second best hand that someone is worried about, or the stone cold nuts. Figure it out....Just pay attention overall and you'll soon be piecing together information about what your opponent's actions mean.

[copernicus 0]

knowledge of these "tells" is so common that they are basically worthless. Any decent online player will vary his bet speed (which is often hard to distinguish from internet speeds anyway) and auto-raises/checks/calls for deceptive purposes.

[ahosang 0]

I'm with copernicus. For a start, I'd forget limit games, and only consider pot-limit/no-limit games where people have a larger bet range to select. If I flop a monster, and quickly decide to slow-play it, I will always press the check button to induce a bluff. However with players that are not very skilled, you may get an idea of what they are doing, especially with maniacs who just bet out after the flop. I have read tells online, but generally after assessing an opponent's skill and playing tendency. Anyone who is better than mediocre is going to be wary of the speed thing. Incidentally, I will sometimes(in STT's only), press the check-fold button post-flop when I have two or more opponents and my hand is total garbage. Although this is said to be bad play, I may WANT someone to know I'm weak. In STT's, it is amazing how this tends to stimulate the other players into some action, as they know I'm weak. Then peole can destroy each other over nothing hands. It does work with some people!!

[mk 11]

Lots of good stuff here, thanks guys.

[tekn0wledg 0]

Yah I like to hit the check button too so it's checked quickly past me and then I can trap opponents who are doing exactly what you want.... betting.

[copernicus 0]

Yah I like to hit the check button too so it's checked quickly past me and then I can trap opponents who are doing exactly what you want.... betting.

Auto checking can also have the opposite (and still beneficial effect) from the cutoff or two off the button with a drawing hand, especially if there has been internet lag. A less patient button or cutoff might also auto-check/fold expecting someone to raise in between, and your acting instantly after the others doesnt give him time to reconsider betting with a marginal hand when the table has shown weakness.

[LONEWOLF 0]

I play probably close to 3 or 4 hours a day online. I mostly play in Sit n go's on Poker STARS (PUNNISHER). There have been some very good posts thus far on the topic. There are definitely online tells. The key to online pokers is making the most out of your situational bets. Once you have played thousands of hands, and more importantly situations, you learn that just by human instinct alone, "MOST" ppl play certain hands the same way. Thus you really learn to determine when someone is weak, totally bluffing or very strong. Yes delayed betting, checking and calling are decent tactics, but as was already stated, these are pretty mediocre in terms of the talent that using them. For now, focus more on assessing your table w/in the first 10 hands you are seated. You have to group/classify the table and use these categories to determine how to play hands. I am at the point now, where I can call with a garbage hand and outplay guys based on my reads of them. Sure there are occasions where I get called on a bluff, or make a bad read, but thus far I am on the winning ends of those situations. Study the players you group. Learn how loose/aggressive players think. Jump in a $5.50 sit n go, and play like an absolute maniac for the tournament. Sure you might get killed, if this is not your element, however, you will learn a very valuable lesson on how maniacs think and are responded to. Learn who is tight/passive and when the blinds raise, start raising their blinds. Sure this might require you to make a raise with a marginal hand out of position, but this too will help you image. Find your best player and simply attempt to avoid him until the time to strike arrives, and then destroy him. There are many other situations I could get into, but frankly I have to run. I hope I could have been of some help. Lastly, always be willing to adjust. L*

[wrto4556 0]

Hear me out before you decide to disregard this thread for being to lengthy. These are a few words written by Al Spath about online tells. I like what you told me about Chris Ferguson NEVER limping pre-flop. Things that make me think or re-think over poker strategy make me drool. So, one good deed deserves another. This is very very helpful. It's definately worth the time and effort to not only read what is said, but to understand it completely.A number of players over the past six years have asked me to analyze their on-line play and see if I could detect any weaknesses in their game, and if they had any blatant "TELLS." The ones I've contacted privately were astonished, not so much by the fact I could see their "Tells," but rather that they had them at all. When we play at a live table we can readily detect the faintest of tells without giving notice they have been caught in our "tell snare." We then exploit this tell as soon as we can use it to our advantage and continue to pounce on the opportunity every time it presents itself. However, when playing on-line, we are now faced with not seeing these players and only watching for "patterns," "broadcast news," and "habits." As you read below, you will be able to select the appropriate category for each bullet statement I provide. Some current PSO students have asked me to identify specific tells I see from the training tables, so I will leave out any names, but those who I speak of are free to comment later if they wish to "tell" us how you are doing with them now. Some of the observations I will discuss you may or may not consider an absolute "tell," but I think you should consider the possibility. Keep in mind that everyone should consider the fact that certain players will intentionally mislead you with a phony tell, and also that the internet speed of any connection can give false indications of a potential tell (it is not a totally reliable indicator or predictor of actions an opponent takes). So lets examine the information I feel is right in front of your eyes, and all you have to do is watch: Players who use advance action buttons (advertise) Players who chat or stop chatting while playing a hand (send you signals) Players that specifically make comments like "hmmmmmmmm," contemplating your bet (will fold, and are weak) Players who bet habitually fast, no delays (image over substance), however, in tournaments (as the blinds increase), you will start to pickup a delay as the betting limits also are rather high (note: those that don't make any adjustment are again providing you information) Players that bet first with a flopped pair on the board (generally, not always, usually have an overpair or they paired the other non-paired card contained in the flop) Players that never call or raise a cut-off seat/button raise from their blinds are passive players that can be dominated often Players on the button (first in), that only call and don't raise (sign of weakness if repeated often by the same player) Players that fold the majority of hands "heads up," or with only three remaining players, continue to wait for better cards (and when they bet, they have what's advertised, easy fold to them unless you have the goods yourself) Players that rebuy instantly as a nl/pl tournament starts (usually indicates they will use the power of chip stacks to intimidate and steal pots, especially early in the event Players that never rebuy seem to be more "conservative" in their play, vigil about protecting their stacks Players that will continuously go All-In preflop in a ring or tournament game, (can be easily trapped, only a matter of time) Players who don't use their huge chip stack lead in a tournament to pick up pots are very conservative and vulnerable for a counter-attack Players in the blinds who call a pre-flop raise and come out betting when the flop hits can be dangerous adversaries (they may have hit a set, two random pair, top pair, or an open ended straight or 4 flush draw, and you should proceed with more caution) Players who are very short-stacked and put more than half their remaining stack in as blind money and then fold to any raise instead of going all-in to make a stand and maximize their return are wasting an opportunity to improve their position, while folding only delays their demise leaving them hardly any chips to continue and compete Players who offer a chop first (aside from the players who do this as just a gesture on their part with folks they know or respect) can be displaying a lack of confidence in their short-game and a sign of weakness Players not accepting a chop are usually aggressive players who consider their short-table skills superior and once the event is restarted, will set out to prove their dominance Players who sit at a ring game with "short money," often characterized as "scared money," usually play from a weak-tight mindset. These players can be dominated with medium holdings for the right bet. Players who don't bother to look where an opponent may reside (overseas players and time zones factor in to determine if very late night, every morning weariness may be involved in betting habits) are missing vital information Players that play multiple tables at the same time miss information, occasionally hit the wrong action button as they experience "screen switch" and these players will not noticed being "played" (your precision use of check-raises, steals, and bluffs) Players that berate others at the table and scare them away just don't get it. Why would chase away players who contribute to your win rate and cash reward. It's only logical then to ask the question: What do I look for at the table - INFORMATION (Remember the groups I mentioned earlier (Patterns, Broadcast News, and Habits) 1. This player will always bet second pair from either blind without regard to how many players saw the flop. They will bet out on many occasions, hoping they will convince others to fold. If actually challenged and raised, they will abandon their cards, if not opposed, they will continue to pound away at the pot, regardless to how many overcards appear on the board. They will bet instantly, and repeatedly each round, without any delay. If you flop a big hand (monster), there is no reason to raise this kind of player. They are going to throw money at you in each subsequent round, and you can lower the boom later in the hand. 2. This player will play "any" two cards in the same suit and raise from late position to build a pot, or to seek a free card. They will actually reraise any previous raise and then usually stop betting when they miss on the river. This player however, will bet again if only one player remaining has checked to them. 3. This player will slow play every big hand they get (no pre-flop raising, even with AA), always attempting to set a trap and use a check-raise later in the hand. 4. This player will bet 5-7 times the amount of the big blind bet in a NL game and you can mark it down, they will have AA, KK, or QQ, rather than a drawing hand or big suited connectors (those hands are generally raised by them 2-3 times the big blind forced bet). 5. This player will raise under the gun with anything from 44-AA, and bet the flop no matter what hits (selling they have a big pair and that the board hit them or did not scare them). 6. This player will bet within two seconds (when it's their time to act), but will slow to about 10 seconds before acting on the river (when they have a monster), otherwise they still bet within 2 secs. Note: Lagging problems exist on the internet, however over a period of time you will be able to know who is experiencing actual lag. 7. This player will actually stop chatting when they have a good hand. It is very funny to see them quiet for a change. There is one player who is just the opposite; they talk about the strangest things when they have a hand, as if to distract the table from noticing their bet (lol). 8. This player will try to talk you into your action in the chat area (saying something like: If you don't like money, bet). 9. This player will always raise pre-flop and then attempt a check-raise if they hit the flop (pocket queens, flop contains a queen, or if they hit two pair), but otherwise will continue betting if they miss or catch only part of the flop. 10. This player will use table action buttons and their RAISE is so fast you know it was pre-set (you can't do it that fast manually). Gee, you think they might be telling us they have a great hand, and not afraid of any prior bet. 11. This player will call with a gut-shot straight all the way to the river, even if you have been the one leading at the pot all the way (just look at the texture of the flop to see if this person may be on a draw). 12. This person, if first to act, from mid-late (6th or 7th seat after blind), will strategically raise no matter what to secure the button position or isolate themselves against either of both blinds (with just about any two cards they hold). 13. This person, will raise from the cut-off seat or button every single time if first in, regardless to starting hand requirements and will also bet immediately on the flop, whether they have anything at all. 14. This person will show you their cards that are pretty (full house, flush etc.) they muck them when they have marginal holdings or a very weak hand (nothing). 15. This player is savvy, and will take the above information and MISCOMMUNICATE their tells, leading you to think one thing, but exploiting your watchful eye. As you know the internet has build in delays due to the computer limitations, phone line and DSL connections, so don't always look for the time to act factor, but if someone is a regular and shows a pattern (time to act), then changes it, consider what they might be doing. Yes, random freezes and delays happen, so see if others are experiencing it as well. Don't be deceived by this means.... you can feel real foolish! I implore all of you to add many more discussion items I might have left out. These are just observations I have made, and a number of players might now say: No Way, Not Me, how can you assume that, you're way off ALSpath! That's okay, these are my reads on-line, you certainly can have differing opinions of what each one means, or doesn't mean, plus some you have encountered yourself. Those would be also interesting to hear about, so send them in or post on the forum and share them with everyone (if you dare)! YOU'RE DONE!! :!:

[wrto4556 0]

Tells are an extremely valuable tool in poker! If you don't believe so you are missing out on alot of extra money. Knowing when to stay in a pot and when to get out are very important. Instead of randomly calling a person that bluffs a little too much, get a read on him and know for sure when to call and when to fold. There is an over-abundance of money in making the correct calls, bets, and folds according to tells.Read Mike Caro's book of tells. He actually has an earn rate for each tell.This tell will make you $10 per hour. That one will make you $2 per hour. Seriously! Tells and psychology are equally as important as odds and betting habbits.

[tekn0wledg 0]

thanks for that post above wrto.... quite informative.

[Metaphysician 0]

4. This player will bet 5-7 times the amount of the big blind bet in a NL game and you can mark it down, they will have AA, KK, or QQ, rather than a drawing hand or big suited connectors (those hands are generally raised by them 2-3 times the big blind forced bet).

This seems to me to be the most common type of low limit player on party poker, by far. If the blinds are .25 and .50 and someone raises to 1.50, he'll have AK or AQ 90% of the time. 1 and 2 with a raise to 6? AK or AQ. 2 and 4? You get the idea. Just watch the tables for an hour. If you're playing 1 and 2 blinds and someone raises to 12 dollars and someone else doubles that to 24, you can confidently muck your queens or jacks without a second thought, few players will play anything less than AA or KK that way. Sometimes you'll see someone who plays AK that way... inevitably getting slaughtered by AA or KK.These are cash games, by the way. Not tournaments.

[mk 11]

thanks for all the good stuff, wrto. i've begun implementing a lot of what's been discussed here and i know it's improving my game. maybe this is an oversimplification, but i think the key is to really, really focus. it's so easy to kind of space out or play a few tables at a time...you can't really form a dossier on each player if you're not concentrating. I used to think the pros were joking when they claimed it's really hard to win tournaments when you get older because you have to be in top mental form for a long period of time, but now that i'm playing in a lot more tournaments, i totally agree. not that i'm old (i'm only 24) but you do need to be 100% focused to play well. i used to think the pros must go on cruise control for a while at the WSOP and just space out, but now i doubt it. a lot of people are good at math, but i feel that not that many people are good at the psychological aspects of the game.

[rkard 0]

Sometimes you might note patterns of speed. Generally you should not read into the betting speed or whether someone ticked the raise any button too much. Personally, if I'm in a FL game and am waiting for my turn to bluff / semi-bluff I hit the bet button so fast it looks like I ticked the box (just as I do when I actually have a hand as decisions are quickly made in FL 3/6 etc). Hellmuth as an example, says that when someone raises/bets immediately they're usually strong! Well then I'm always strong when I bet then, hooray!There are people who do read into this, mostly beginners who are trying to get tells online by looking at the speed bar. So you just use this "common knowledge" against them. On the rare occassion you'll find someone who is set like a robot and takes long eeevery time he has a hand is going to raise, and everytime he has a marginal hand to call a bet. The thing is that EVERYONE with a brain is aware of the "time" element. So most people try to manipulate you into thinking something based on the time they take to act. I'll bet these people all have different ways of doing it as well and tend to change the way they do it.That said, reading betting speeds won't do you many favours.. Focus on studying your opponents plays instead of the time they take to bet.