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another 10/20 live hand. nov 7th


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#1 HoosierAlum

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 02:57 AM

9 handed The game is playing suprisingly tight/passive, only 3 to most flopsSB is solid/trickyI have 99 in mp 2. Folded to me, I raise. Button, SB, BB call.Flop Qs 10s 4dCheck, Check, I bet, button folds, sb calls, bb folds.Turn 2hSB bets, I ???? hate this hand...................




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#2 DanielNegreanu

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 03:03 AM

I dump it on the turn. Even though you have position, there are too many cards you'd probably have to fade even if your 99 are still the best hand. A Q-10 board is one that connects with too many hands that your opponents might call with. In fact, I seriously think you would be better off checking that flop in the long run when you are called by three players. If it gets checked around on the flop and the turn card is safe, then you can start thinking about protecting those 99's. There is a big misconception that the pre-flop raiser HAS to bet the flop. Why? The flop sucked, and if you are beat nobody is going anywhere!
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#3 screech

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 04:04 AM

Quote

A Q-10 board is one that connects with too many hands that your opponents might call with

Quote

There is a big misconception that the pre-flop raiser HAS to bet the flop.
I think this is something I really have to work at.

#4 HoosierAlum

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 04:09 AM

Let me just add that this hand confused me so much because the SB had been pwning me all night. I can admit that he is a better player than I am and he seems to teach me a lesson every time he shows up.This player knows I will bet most flops when I am the pf raiser, and he knows that his gaybet will confuse the hell out of me. I don't know if I made the right play by folding here...




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#5 HoosierAlum

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 04:10 AM

HoosierAlum said:

Let me just add that this hand confused me so much because the SB had been pwning me all night. I can admit that he is a better player than I am and he seems to teach me a lesson every time he shows up.This player knows I will bet most flops when I am the pf raiser, and he knows that his gaybet will confuse the hell out of me. I don't know if I made the right play by folding here.





I might start updating this again.
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#6 TJ_Eckleburg

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 07:27 AM

I think folding on the turn is a good idea because of the QTs hitting a lot of hands...but IF we wanted to look SB up...Would raising for a free showdown be better than calling down?
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#7 checkymcfold

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Posted 09 November 2005 - 11:24 PM

DanielNegreanu said:

I dump it on the turn. Even though you have position, there are too many cards you'd probably have to fade even if your 99 are still the best hand. A Q-10 board is one that connects with too many hands that your opponents might call with. In fact, I seriously think you would be better off checking that flop in the long run when you are called by three players. If it gets checked around on the flop and the turn card is safe, then you can start thinking about protecting those 99's. There is a big misconception that the pre-flop raiser HAS to bet the flop. Why? The flop sucked, and if you are beat nobody is going anywhere!
daniel-i agree that this is a check behind/bet checked turn situation in a 3-way pot against the blinds, but my question to you is this: is there a decent way of codifying these sorts of situations into anything that resembles a chart? i'm sure i'm losing bets due to improper continuation bets in situations like these.for instance:say we have 88 here, make the same raise, the blinds call, and the flop comes Q9x. since we now have a flop with only one broadway card and a much more difficult draw, i am much more inclined to bet this flop than the one in the OP. is this thinking correct? my thoughts on this have always been something like:heads up, always continuation bet.3-way, continuation bet if 1 or 0 broadway cards fall, check otherwise.4-way or more, i have to somehow hit the flop to bet.of course, there's a bit of nuance here, since AK likes flops like Q9x and QTx much more (er, dislikes them less) than 88, but still, i generally stick to the rule above with only a few exceptions based on player tendencies and position. does this sound ok to you?

#8 petersun

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Posted 29 November 2005 - 10:25 PM

HoosierAlum said:

This player knows I will bet most flops when I am the pf raiser, and he knows that his gaybet will confuse the hell out of me.  I don't know if I made the right play by folding here...
I think you've identified your problem. Don't get predictable. Checking to a bad board on the flop with bad position is quite okay. If you detect weakness or it gets checked around on the turn, then that's where you make the move.




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