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4 flush to start nov 7th


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#1 benhoug

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Posted 01 November 2005 - 07:40 AM

I need some serious Stud help. I try to play as many forms of poker as I can, and I feel as though I have gotten to a point where I'm proficient at all the games I play. All the games but 7 card Stud that is. It's the only form of poker where I'm a lifetime loser. There is something about this game that just causes me to hemorrhage money. Allow me to get more specific...When I'm dealt a hand like 2:spade: 6 :club: A :D (w/ the A as my door card) I'll raise, and catch something like J :D on 4th street. Then I put the pedal to the metal, betting and raising b/c I know I should get there almost half the time. Undoubtedly I'll miss my draw and have to fold a pot I've built so large. Keep in mind I'm mindful of how many of my suit are out, etc. etc. I think in general I play my draws VERY aggessively and I don't seem to get there often enough to make up for losses. Should I slow down? I've read Chip Reese's chapter in Super System (though maybe I should revisit it). Are there any other must read stud books/chapters/articles? I need all the help I can get, I just can't seem to grasp this game.

#2 KowboyKoop

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Posted 01 November 2005 - 04:21 PM

benhoug said:

I need some serious Stud help.  I try to play as many forms of poker as I can, and I feel as though I have gotten to a point where I'm proficient at all the games I play.  All the games but 7 card Stud that is.  It's the only form of poker where I'm a lifetime loser.  There is something about this game that just causes me to hemorrhage money.  Allow me to get more specific...When I'm dealt a hand like 2:spade: 6 :club: A :D (w/ the A as my door card) I'll raise, and catch something like J :D on 4th street.  Then I put the pedal to the metal, betting and raising b/c I know I should get there almost half the time.  Undoubtedly I'll miss my draw and have to fold a pot I've built so large.  Keep in mind I'm mindful of how many of my suit are out, etc. etc.  I think in general I play my draws VERY aggessively and I don't seem to get there often enough to make up for losses.  Should I slow down?  I've read Chip Reese's chapter in Super System (though maybe I should revisit it).  Are there any other must read stud books/chapters/articles?  I need all the help I can get, I just can't seem to grasp this game.
it depends on how many players you are up against, in my opinion. Raising on third is correct if noone else has raised. If on fourth, you catch a fourth spade, here is what you should consider:A-how many of my suit are out?? if more than three are out, you should not be very aggressive, and MIGHT consider folding if the action gets heavy.B-what do the other players have. You certainly don't wanna be aggressive if someone paired a door card,C-and most important, how many players are you up against. If you are up against only one or two other players, you should only be aggressive if you think they are weak and you can steal the pot without hitting your draw. If you don't think you will make them fold with a raise, then just call, since you probably have good odds. However, if you are up against three or more opponents, I would probably lead out or raise one bet to try and build a pot with multiple callers. Don't drive other players out, if at all possible, b/c you want all those extra bets. However, if someone bets and gets three callers and then it is to you, then I would almost always raise, b/c you will likely get called by all of themBasically,you want as many players as possible so that you get paid off when you make a flush.

#3 The Spotted One

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Posted 02 November 2005 - 06:29 PM

Generally it is best to play four card flush draws with an Ace agressively in 7 stud. There are numerous factors that could make this untrue though. One being if someone paired their door card, a second if your flush cards are starting to be dead. A third how your opponents are playing, and how you are playing. Have your opponents seen you get really aggressive with your flush draws everytime? One thing you should look at is how high your cards besides your Ace are. For example, say someone completes with a T up on third. You may be more inclined to raise him with a hand like (8s Js) As then a hand like (2s 6s) As. Why? Because you now have the added benefit of potentially beating him with a pair of Js, or As. So have in mind your other cards. Getting heads up there on third ( with the (8s Js) As ) is probably better then letting other people trail in. Especially if he is someone who will let go of a pair of Ts. The higher your cards besides the Ace, the most likely the better. Another thing to consider greatly is what your position will be on 4th St. after you complete or raise on 3rd St. Since you have the A up, you will most likely act first on 4th. So you have to keep in mind on how you will play with positional disadvantage on 4th. Chip Reese's 7 Stud section is good, Seven Card Stud for the Advanced Player by Sklansky, Mason, and Zee is good too.

#4 greatwhite

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Posted 06 November 2005 - 06:40 PM

You have to adjust to the situation. It all depends how many spades vs how many other suits are in other peoples hands. You shouldn't play agressively if you 5 spades across other peoples hand for example. If you see 7 cards and there are 1 or no spades I'm raising. I'd also suggest 7CSFAP.

#5 DanielNegreanu

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 03:23 AM

Read 7 Card Stud by Konstantin Othmer, endorsed by Huck Seed.
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#6 Randall

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 07:13 AM

Quote

Read 7 Card Stud by Konstantin Othmer, endorsed by Huck Seed.
Wow, this book is hard to find. Has anybody had any luck finding this book for sale somewhere?

#7 benhoug

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 07:51 AM

Randall said:

Quote

Read 7 Card Stud by Konstantin Othmer, endorsed by Huck Seed.
Wow, this book is hard to find. Has anybody had any luck finding this book for sale somewhere?
according to Amazon it's called The Elements of Seven Card Stud, and it's out of print. I'm on the lookout though. If anyone has a copy they'd like to loan me I'd appreciate it.

#8 benhoug

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 07:58 AM

greatwhite said:

You have to adjust to the situation. It all depends how many spades vs how many other suits are in other peoples hands.
I am mindful of how many of my suit are out. In the above example by 6th street there were only 2 :club: on other people's boards. I played another hand in the same session with the same scenario, except I had the K :D as my door card. I played this draw very aggressively, and by 6th street this time there were only 3 :D showing, but I didn't get there this time either. I know these are only 2 specific examples, and I shouldn't get too caught up in them, but it gets frustrating, and it feels like every time I build a huge pot I fail to improve. I'm just trying to sort out this flaw in my stud game. Am I doing something wrong, or am I just getting unlucky???

#9 benhoug

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 09:33 AM

Randall said:

Quote

Read 7 Card Stud by Konstantin Othmer, endorsed by Huck Seed.
Wow, this book is hard to find. Has anybody had any luck finding this book for sale somewhere?
After much looking I found it at The Gambler's Bookstore.http://www.gamblersb...ail/477701.html

#10 Randall

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Posted 07 November 2005 - 04:40 PM

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After much looking I found it at The Gambler's Bookstore.http://www.gamblersb...ail/477701.html
Nice work...I looked for quite a while and didn't find anything.




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