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kings preflop, ace on turn (limit) aug 1st


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#1 dimseven

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Posted 30 July 2005 - 06:00 AM

Table is tight-agressive. 25-30 preflop. (I'm at it to clear a re-load bonus)10 handed 3-6Hero has Ks Kc in MP.A bunch of tighties fold... Hero raises, Button calls.Flop: [7h][7s][5d]Hero bets, Button calls.Turn: [Ah]Hero checksRiver: [Qd]Hero checks I can put him on a range of hands: A-K, A-A, K-K (I know), Q-Q, J-J, 10-10, could even be a smaller pair to get it heads up...

#2 Vade

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Posted 30 July 2005 - 06:30 AM

Checking the turn is bad...bet out and consider your read if he does raise.If he's a tricky or somewhat loose player like you seemed to indicate, your kings might still have showdown value
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#3 dimseven

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Posted 30 July 2005 - 06:53 AM

Vade said:

Checking the turn is bad...bet out and consider your read if he does raise.If he's a tricky or somewhat loose player like you seemed to indicate, your kings might still have showdown value
Bet the turn and fold to a raise?Oh and he's not loose, he's tight-agg. But he could be 3-betting preflop with a lower PP like 8-8 or something thinking I have A-K or A-Q.

#4 Vade

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Posted 30 July 2005 - 07:03 AM

That's why I said consider your read :PYou might fold to a raise some of the time, and call down some of the timeEither way is better then just check/calling down
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#5 screech

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Posted 30 July 2005 - 07:18 AM

I usually bet the turn here too, but I'm starting to wonder whether or not if it's the right move against an aggressive opponent.An TAG may call with a lower PP, but most of what they call with will have us beat. Also, this is a way ahead/way behind situation. Checking give a weaker hand a chance to make something, and it could also induce a bluff. Bet/fold is a good option if your opponent is straightforward. If you don't know how to handle a raise, check/calling is the best option.You need a read to be able to play this situation profitably, but how do you play it with no reads?

#6 Smasharoo

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Posted 30 July 2005 - 07:20 AM

Check/calling this turn is horrible.I think I bet/fold it. If he's raising here with QQ or JJ after you cap, good for him, he's going to make you rich later.
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#7 dimseven

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Posted 30 July 2005 - 07:47 AM

Screech, I thought about WA-WB. I thought too if I bet turn and he had a smaller PP, he'd fold. But I'd win the pot right there, and if he raises, I fold, saving 1 BB. I wouldn't spend 3 BB to showdown. Screech Smash and Vade... next time I bet - fold to a turn raise. However what happens if he just calls... then on the river? Check-call right? But wouldn't that cost the same amount (2 BB) as if I had check called from the turn? I mean, if he called the turn with an ace and I check river, he's betting all the time there.

#8 dimseven

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Posted 30 July 2005 - 08:09 AM

dimseven said:

Screech, I thought about WA-WB. I thought too if I bet turn and he had a smaller PP, he'd fold. But I'd win the pot right there, and if he raises, I fold, saving 1 BB. I wouldn't spend 3 BB to showdown. Screech Smash and Vade... next time I bet - fold to a turn raise. However what happens if he just calls... then on the river? Check-call right? But wouldn't that cost the same amount (2 BB) as if I had check called from the turn? I mean, if he called the turn with an ace and I check river, he's betting all the time there.
Ok let me be the first one to answer meself. Thats how come I should bet - fold the turn. Win the pot, and hope to save 1 BB if he raises. Don't think about him folding a smaller PP if I bet the turn and not getting paid off, I'll win the pot if he folds and I'll save 1 BB if he raises. If he just calls, then it will be the same as if I had just check-called turn and river, spending the same amount of 2 BB.Ok, thanks me.

#9 Actuary

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Posted 31 July 2005 - 06:05 AM

dimseven said:

dimseven said:

Screech, I thought about WA-WB. I thought too if I bet turn and he had a smaller PP, he'd fold. But I'd win the pot right there, and if he raises, I fold, saving 1 BB. I wouldn't spend 3 BB to showdown. Screech Smash and Vade... next time I bet - fold to a turn raise. However what happens if he just calls... then on the river? Check-call right? But wouldn't that cost the same amount (2 BB) as if I had check called from the turn? I mean, if he called the turn with an ace and I check river, he's betting all the time there.
Ok let me be the first one to answer meself. Thats how come I should bet - fold the turn. Win the pot, and hope to save 1 BB if he raises. Don't think about him folding a smaller PP if I bet the turn and not getting paid off, I'll win the pot if he folds and I'll save 1 BB if he raises. If he just calls, then it will be the same as if I had just check-called turn and river, spending the same amount of 2 BB.Ok, thanks me.
now, do youbet/ fold the river?especially since it was a Q....I'm thinking check/call the river..you want to showdown this hand...If I give bad advice, Smash will invite me to play Party 5/10..Thats Party..5/10 Holdem...on Party....So I hope this is okee dokee.

#10 akishore

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Posted 31 July 2005 - 08:44 AM

here's a question.if you bet the turn and get raised, are you folding or calling down?the way you answer that is key in how to play the turn, i think.aseem
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#11 akishore

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Posted 31 July 2005 - 08:44 AM

Smasharoo said:

Check/calling this turn is horrible.
why exactly?aseem
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#12 dimseven

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Posted 31 July 2005 - 08:48 AM

akishore said:

here's a question.if you bet the turn and get raised, are you folding or calling down?the way you answer that is key in how to play the turn, i think.aseem
If I get raised on the turn, I'm folding.

#13 akishore

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Posted 31 July 2005 - 08:51 AM

dimseven said:

If I get raised on the turn, I'm folding.
i'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, but i don't think it should be so automatic.you'd be getting 8-to-1, and this is clearly a big pot heads-up.aseem
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#14 popeye18

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Posted 31 July 2005 - 08:57 AM

Against an unkown im bet/folding this turn everytime.

#15 dimseven

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Posted 31 July 2005 - 09:19 AM

akishore said:

dimseven said:

If I get raised on the turn, I'm folding.
i'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, but i don't think it should be so automatic.you'd be getting 8-to-1, and this is clearly a big pot heads-up.aseem
It's not worth 2 more BB to showdown (3 total BB). After I capped preflop and bet out flop and then turn with an A popping up, if he raises I'm sure 90 pct of the time I'm beat.It's also a WA-WB situation. So check calling would be cheaper than being raised and then spending 3 total BB to showdown.

#16 custom36

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Posted 31 July 2005 - 09:39 AM

akishore said:

Smasharoo said:

Check/calling this turn is horrible.
why exactly?aseem
If you check the turn, it looks like your flop bet was a continuation bet and you really have nothing. You're getting bet by anything, really. You have no idea where you're at in the hand.

#17 custom36

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Posted 31 July 2005 - 09:40 AM

I'm bet/folding the turn.I think I'm check/calling the river, but I'm not sure. I may be bet/folding that as well. :?

#18 custom36

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Posted 31 July 2005 - 09:41 AM

akishore said:

dimseven said:

If I get raised on the turn, I'm folding.
i'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, but i don't think it should be so automatic.you'd be getting 8-to-1, and this is clearly a big pot heads-up.aseem
What's raising you that you can beat? What's raising you that you can't beat? He's tight-agg, if he hit the A, he's raising. If he has you beat, he's raising.

#19 akishore

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Posted 31 July 2005 - 09:58 AM

what i was trying to get at was that check/calling both streets costs at most 2 BB. betting protects your hand, but there's not really much to protect against (wa/wb, except a probably unlikely backdoor flush draw).by checking, you can also induce bluffs from hands that you have beat. by betting, any hand you have beat now folds and any hand that beats you will call/raise (kings will probably not fold). in a sense, this makes betting -EV, right?i don't mind check/calling that much since it's against an aggressive player.really, it costs just one more bet compared to bet/folding, and that one bet isn't much in this pot, i think.aseem
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#20 jayboogie

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Posted 31 July 2005 - 10:09 AM

I see people trying to represent the Ace all the time in capped pots like this. Personally, I am calling this hand down unless I'm against someone who never bluffs.




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