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all in on the flop with overpair jj...


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#1 Tantalar

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 12:26 PM

What do you guys think about this play?A buddy of mine was playing in a sit and go, $2.20 one, and hes dealt JJ. He raises PF about 200, (Starting with 1500 chips each) he had about 1400he gets 1 caller. The flop comes 9,2,4 rainbow. He rasies the pot. He gets re raised the pot. He goes all in.The dude instantly calls him, and shows 92 for 2 pair. he shows JJ for overpair. He loses the sit and go. Good play? Bad play? I told him he should have layed it down after the dude re raised

#2 GodOfEntropy

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 12:45 PM

Tantalar said:

What do you guys think about this play?A buddy of mine was playing in a sit and go, $2.20 one, and hes dealt JJ. He raises PF about 200, (Starting with 1500 chips each) he had about 1400he gets 1 caller. The flop comes 9,2,4 rainbow. He rasies the pot. He gets re raised the pot. He goes all in.The dude instantly calls him, and shows 92 for 2 pair. he shows JJ for overpair. He loses the sit and go. Good play? Bad play? I told him he should have layed it down after the dude re raised
No read on his opponent I imagine, also what was the relative position of the reraiser and the blind level?What can you beat here - TT, A9, K9, AK, 88...what beats you here that is a likely holding - 99, 22, 44, QQ, KK, AA. I might make the same move as your friend given it seems like the pot odds are there - too bad the board did not counterfeit the 2 pair!

#3 Dubey

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 01:07 PM

in a 2.20 Sng, I probably wouldn't give the guy much credit, unless you had some sort of read that he was usually passive. I might have done the same thing.

#4 HurricaneKyle

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 01:28 PM

in a 2.20 sitngo, I'd always call with an overpair on the flop unless I had reason to think he was a tight player.
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#5 teneight

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 02:06 PM

tantalar said he would fold = fish

#6 Ottawa_Biatch

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 02:08 PM

fishy fishy
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#7 PimpRock

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 02:32 PM

teneight said:

tantalar said he would fold = fish
I would argue that a skilled player is more likely to pass JJ in this spot than a fishy player. If he passes he has 1k left and a fighting chance in the tourney. We all saw what happened with his call.

#8 GodOfEntropy

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 02:41 PM

PimpRock said:

teneight said:

tantalar said he would fold = fish
I would argue that a skilled player is more likely to pass JJ in this spot than a fishy player. If he passes he has 1k left and a fighting chance in the tourney. We all saw what happened with his call.
Actually he has at most 800 chips at this point after potting it on the flop, and when the villain reraises, he is getting better than 2:1 here. Those are pretty good odds to pass up considering the range of hands villain has - I think folding is weak, calling is weak as all the money is getting pushed in here on the turn, so putting the decision back to the villain is the strong play here IMO.

#9 Loismustdie

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 02:43 PM

I refuse to discuss strategy for a 2.20 sng.

#10 GodOfEntropy

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 02:45 PM

Loismustdie said:

I refuse to discuss strategy for a 2.20 sng.
thank you for adding that, any reason why you felt the need to post this?

#11 Loismustdie

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 02:52 PM

GodOfEntropy said:

Loismustdie said:

I refuse to discuss strategy for a 2.20 sng.
thank you for adding that, any reason why you felt the need to post this?
The reasons are self explanatory.

#12 GodOfEntropy

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 02:55 PM

What? It's only 2.20, or the players are too fishy? Correct, but for many of us low-limit players, this is the world we play in and there are strategies to beating these games, so again thanks for your input.

#13 SapphireTiger

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 03:13 PM

Loismustdie said:

I refuse to discuss strategy for a 2.20 sng.
just because it's low limit and people play like donks doesn't mean strategy isn't involved. there are still +ev moves and -ev moves, and they are just adjusted by the style of play of your opponents. which in this case, is a sucky style.

#14 Dubey

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 03:32 PM

GodOfEntropy said:

PimpRock said:

teneight said:

tantalar said he would fold = fish
I would argue that a skilled player is more likely to pass JJ in this spot than a fishy player. If he passes he has 1k left and a fighting chance in the tourney. We all saw what happened with his call.
Actually he has at most 800 chips at this point after potting it on the flop, and when the villain reraises, he is getting better than 2:1 here. Those are pretty good odds to pass up considering the range of hands villain has - I think folding is weak, calling is weak as all the money is getting pushed in here on the turn, so putting the decision back to the villain is the strong play here IMO.
with relatively deep stacks, pot odds mean almost nothing in a situation like this.

#15 GodOfEntropy

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Posted 11 September 2005 - 04:07 PM

I agree with that, but it makes it an easier decision than if there was 50 chips in the pot and facing an overbet. My point is, given the range of hands the villain could be holding, pushing in here with the size of the pot makes this +EV, especially if you think there is some fold equity.




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