getting away from aa...

[Guest Zach6668]

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (7 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: Hero is Button with A:spade:, A:diamond:. UTG calls, MP1 calls, 1 fold, UTG calls, MP1 calls, CO calls.Flop: (13.50 SB) Q:spade:, 5:heart:, 6:heart: (4 players)UTG checks, MP1 bets, UTG calls, MP1 calls.Turn: (12.75 BB) T:club: (3 players)UTG checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls, UTG calls.River: (15.75 BB) 4:club: (3 players)UTG checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls, UTG folds.Final Pot: 17.75 BB------------------------------------Comments? Is it ridiculous to think about folding anywhere in this hand? What about the flop cap?Villain is 22/1/1.29 - 67 hands.Thanks.Zach

[Wingmaster05 0]

Nice hand. I like it, normally people cave under pressure and go raise happy.Try a...umm... more deceptive title. Evidently you lost, but we shouldn't know that.

[Smasharoo 0]

Is it ridiculous to think about folding anywhere in this hand?Utterly.good luck.

[Guest Zach6668]

Is it ridiculous to think about folding anywhere in this hand?Utterly.good luck.

Just wanted some positive reinforcement. :dance:I thought I played it well. 8)

[Actuary 3]

I'd like to see you raise the the turn before going to call down mode.This looks all to familar, like I would paly it when I'm being too scared.and no way I'm folding, especially w/o a raise on the turn.Villian has a Q a lot, of course.***Read replies ***Can we raise the turn?Against this villan, (not very agg) would Raise-Fold turn be good?It's rarely two-pair with this guy, so callnig turn and fodling river UI makes no sense.I tend to call down too much because I don't want to fold a winner when he gives me an "FU" 3-bet. So I call down and lose 2 more bets, instead.

[fckthis 0]

It might seem you're beat as villian bets turn out, after capping flop with you, but it may be a case of a great great draw, I would guess 87H.I think call down mode is good against a LAG, but for me its raise/fold turn.But after reading alot of posts concerning AA to action, am I letting it go more often than I should be? And can someone explain to me why I SHOULD be calling down with AA in most cases?

[Guest Zach6668]

It might seem you're beat as villian bets turn out, after capping flop with you, but it may be a case of a great great draw, I would guess 87H.I think call down mode is good against a LAG, but for me its raise/fold turn.But after reading alot of posts concerning AA to action, am I letting it go more often than I should be? And can someone explain to me why I SHOULD be calling down with AA in most cases?

For one, you have AA. It is a strong hand and has showdown value by itself.Secondly, if we are behind to 2 pair, we have 7 outs to beat it. If we are behind to a set, we still have 2 outs.Not to mention that fact that we can easily still be ahead in this pot. Have you never seen someone play AQ, KQ like this?Anyone else have anything to add?Zach

[Actuary 3]

sometimes you call turn and fodl river UI.but not on that board.I cant do it in pots that big against caliber of palyers I see; but perhaps I can find times too, one day :(oh..and we have 8 outs to beat 2 pair on the turn.

[screech 0]

I would raise the turn and call down if 3-bet. No way villian has QT.

[Guest Zach6668]

I would raise the turn and call down if 3-bet.  No way villian has QT.

66, actually. Before the cards were flipped, I typed "55?" in the chatbox... I felt smart when he flipped over a set.... lol.

[screech 0]

I would raise the turn and call down if 3-bet.  No way villian has QT.

66, actually. Before the cards were flipped, I typed "55?" in the chatbox... I felt smart when he flipped over a set.... lol.

Smarter than me anyway. I was right that he never had QT. :-) It all comes down to reads. I just assume everyone's an idiot and overplay their tp hands like I do. I raise because of this and to get UTG out of the way.

[screech 0]

I would raise the turn and call down if 3-bet.  No way villian has QT.

66, actually. Before the cards were flipped, I typed "55?" in the chatbox... I felt smart when he flipped over a set.... lol.

Smarter than me anyway. I was right that he never had QT. :-) It all comes down to reads. I just assume everyone's an idiot and overplay their tp hands like I do. I raise because of this and to get UTG out of the way.

[Guest Zach6668]

I would raise the turn and call down if 3-bet.  No way villian has QT.

66, actually. Before the cards were flipped, I typed "55?" in the chatbox... I felt smart when he flipped over a set.... lol.

Smarter than me anyway. I was right that he never had QT. :-) It all comes down to reads. I just assume everyone's an idiot and overplay their tp hands like I do. I raise because of this and to get UTG out of the way.

Meh. I'll prolly lose value long run if I think I can read people for their hands. But his stats were pretty solid, so a set was the only thing that made sense. Of course, I absolutely have to call down anwyays.Zach

[screech 0]

Yeah.I call down here against anyone that's halfway decent.

[Actuary 3]

Yeah.I call down here against anyone that's halfway decent.

Are you withdrawing your advice for a Turn raise, then, given a solid player read?

[checkymcfold 0]

haven't read replies, but i'm SURE you're up against a set.at the risk of sounding like a goofball, i have been known to raise/fold the turn in situations like this against a 1.3 AF if i have enough hands against him/her. if i have seen a set played this way and 2p played differently (as it usually is in my experience) by this guy, then i'm definitely raise/folding the turn. and if you don't take enough notes to know whether s/he will come out against a cap without a set, then you need to take better notes.

[Smasharoo 0]

at the risk of sounding like a goofball, i have been known to raise/fold the turn in situations like thisSo you can lose the same amount of bets 100% of the time instead of showing the hand down and winning some of the time.Genius.good luck.

[Actuary 3]

and if you don't take enough notes to know whether s/he will come out against a cap without a set, then you need to take better notes.

i play against 5k different people online, at leastgive me a break about note taking on what they do with sets..or what their flop cap range is."OVerplays top pair" ..that's about as good as I may get.But maybe that's the 2 times I noticed..who knows..relyng too much on that would be bad.

[fckthis 0]

at the risk of sounding like a goofball, i have been known to raise/fold the turn in situations like thisSo you can lose the same amount of bets 100% of the time instead of showing the hand down and winning some of the time.Genius.good luck.

Good point. I know realize my errors concerning AA. Thanks.

[checkymcfold 0]

at the risk of sounding like a goofball, i have been known to raise/fold the turn in situations like thisSo you can lose the same amount of bets 100% of the time instead of showing the hand down and winning some of the time.Genius.good luck.

indeed, most of the time i call this down, but raising the turn here does have some fold equity against some players in my experience, and it's not a given that you'll get three bet. plus, if you get checked into on the river, you have a chance to improve and get in another bet if you do.i would never advocate playing it this way all the time, but there are spots for it.

[Actuary 3]

indeed, most of the time i call this down, but raising the turn here does have some fold equity against some players in my experience, and it's not a given that you'll get three bet. plus, if you get checked into on the river, you have a chance to improve and get in another bet if you do.i would never advocate playing it this way all the time, but there are spots for it.

What better hands fold?Are you trying to fold hands that are behind here?

[checkymcfold 0]

indeed, most of the time i call this down, but raising the turn here does have some fold equity against some players in my experience, and it's not a given that you'll get three bet. plus, if you get checked into on the river, you have a chance to improve and get in another bet if you do.i would never advocate playing it this way all the time, but there are spots for it.

What better hands fold?Are you trying to fold hands that are behind here?

i've seen people fold weak 2ps here. not often, but sometimes.and no, i'm not talking about making hands that are behind fold. like, duh.

[Actuary 3]

i've seen people fold weak 2ps here. not often, but sometimes.

that's amazing

[screech 0]

indeed, most of the time i call this down, but raising the turn here does have some fold equity against some players in my experience, and it's not a given that you'll get three bet. plus, if you get checked into on the river, you have a chance to improve and get in another bet if you do.i would never advocate playing it this way all the time, but there are spots for it.

What better hands fold?Are you trying to fold hands that are behind here?

I don't think we fold better hands, but we may fold hands that have enough outs to call, such as KQ.

[checkymcfold 0]

i've seen people fold weak 2ps here. not often, but sometimes.

that's amazing

you wouldn't fold 56 to me if i raised the turn on you? i would fold 56 against most normal SLP or SLAP players in a situation like this, but i don't use gametime, so i don't know what this guy's stats really signify.if you can't fold AA in pots like these, where you're likely drawing to one out against the combined field, you're in trouble in the long run, i think. i'd be less likely to fold with the flush draw out there (something like AQ is definitely a possibility), but what i'm trying to suggest with the turn raise/fold play is that there are--and yes, smash et al, this one is not quite the ideal example, since there is a draw on board--where you have to be able to toss overpairs and weaker 2ps, yes, even in seemingly big pots.here's another question, though, which cropped up for me as i thought more about this hand:aren't we capping the flop largely for info? and when our little friend bets into a capper on the turn, are we really assuming that he doesn't have at least 2p (the only real possibility of 2p on this board would be 56, which he might fold to a raise, as i said)? and if he does have a set, doesn't his turn bet tattoo it on his forehead?