Folding Aa

[biggs88 0]

I know there are some situations when folding aces preflop is correct in tournaments (not in cash games obviously). Can someone please outline to me when these are? Is it when you have the chance to be eliminated on the current hand if you call with aces, but the shortest stack will be all-in on the next hand in his blind or something? Does it change things if the tournament is winner take all?Cheers

[trystero 0]

You should only fold when you're on the bubble of a satellite and all of the payouts are equal. For example you're playing in a WSOP qualifier where the top 9 finishes get seats. There are 10 players remaining and the blinds are set at 1000/2000. You have 25,000 chips and two players have 2500 and 4500 respectively. At this point you want to fold every hand against a decent sized stack because you can "cash" simply by coasting. An 80% edge or whatever from AA is actually lower than your chance of winning should you fold every hand. The shortstacks - or someone else - will probably bust before you do. So in this example suppose you are dealt AA in the BB. The chip leader raises to 6000 and everyone folds - you should too. Now if one of the shortstacks were to do this then you should obviously call because you've got an 80%+ chance to take down the tournament right now. Even if you lose you've still got a great shot of cashing.In regular tournaments you should never ever fold AA preflop because you are trying to take down first place money. As you can see the situations in which you should fold AA preflop are incredibly rare and often contrived.

[biggs88 0]

Thanks for reply trystero.A person I know (retard) thinks the following is correct:"1. If it is then end of the tournament, and all stacks are roughly equal, but you are covered by both, You should fold AA, even if you know the other two players have KK, and QQ and they have moved all in in front of you. Although you are the favorite to win the hand, you lose money by calling, a -EV play.2. In a Satellite where the winner takes all, there is no money for second or third. You do not lose money and must make the call and accept the 2:1 odds as the favorite."Can someone please put it into words how fundamentally flawed this and i'll pass this onto to him in a kind manner ;)Thanks in advance

[Yahkin 0]

How about this situation? 3 get paid, Other shortstack is allin on the next hand. Not much hope of getting anything but third.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)UTG (t190)Button (t9410)Hero (t385)BB (t3515)Preflop: Hero is SB with A, A. 1 fold, Button raises to t1225, Hero ???

[rogerwilco 0]

^^^I don't know much about ICM, but I think you have to call here and hope the hand holds up. Folding is too risky, what if the other short stack triples up next hand instead of busting?

Thanks for reply trystero.A person I know (retard) thinks the following is correct:"1. If it is then end of the tournament, and all stacks are roughly equal, but you are covered by both, You should fold AA, even if you know the other two players have KK, and QQ and they have moved all in in front of you. Although you are the favorite to win the hand, you lose money by calling, a -EV play.2. In a Satellite where the winner takes all, there is no money for second or third. You do not lose money and must make the call and accept the 2:1 odds as the favorite."Can someone please put it into words how fundamentally flawed this and i'll pass this onto to him in a kind manner ;)Thanks in advance

In both examples it is obviously wrong to fold AA preflop. In the first one it is a mistake because usually the payout in tournaments is very top-heavy, which means that playing to win is a more proftitable strategy than playing to just move up in the money-ladder, especially if the chip-stacks are roughly equal. It is absurd to believe, you lose money when you get your chips into the pot as a solid favourite in this scenario. I don't really get the second example, is he saying, that in this scenario he would call all in with AA or what? In a winner takes all tournament, you must play to win, so not taking take every edge you can get (nevermind the huge edge AA has preflop) is definately a losing strategy

[Zach6668 513]

How about this situation? 3 get paid, Other shortstack is allin on the next hand. Not much hope of getting anything but third.PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)UTG (t190)Button (t9410)Hero (t385)BB (t3515)Preflop: Hero is SB with A, A. 1 fold, Button raises to t1225, Hero ???

Easy call.

[....Ian.... 0]

3 situations1. satelite bubble (and u are >95% to get seat if u fold)2. ur on the bubble of a big tourney and someone is holding ur family hostage and u need the $ to save them3. you are acting in a play as a severely mentally handicapped person