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I Paid To See The Cards


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Hello everyone,I am a huge poker fan and my hubby and I have a question about play in a casino. If this is a previous topic I hope you will excuse me as I am new to this forum. We record and watch everything poker on TV that we can find, but we see a constant that bothers us. WE have also experienced this at the casinos. It bothers me more than it does my husband. When somebody calls on TV, if someone is bluffing they just say you got it and muck their cards. Wouldn't it be benificial to see what they were bluffing with to get an idea of their play?The phrase of "Pay to see your cards" is always used but never done. I have called many times but it seems acceptable to let them muck their cards. the problem is it's great to win but I have noticed when you call and win they get upset when you ask to see what they mucked. I get lines like "what do you care you won" "thats bad table manners" Fortunately for me I'm easy on the eyes so their not usually mean about it but if I paid shouldn't I get to see?When we play in the poker room for hours at a 5/10 table it helps me to know what someone bluffed with so I can make a mental note. Is it my right if I call to see the hand that I called win or loose?? and If so how come the proffessionals dont do it???Can anyone help a lady out???

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If they don't want to show they were bluffing, it doesn't matter what they were holding rake in the chips and leave the person alone you just took their money. It really irks my tater when I have to turn over my cards when i am caught bluffing.

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Hello everyone,I am a huge poker fan and my hubby and I have a question about play in a casino. If this is a previous topic I hope you will excuse me as I am new to this forum. We record and watch everything poker on TV that we can find, but we see a constant that bothers us. WE have also experienced this at the casinos. It bothers me more than it does my husband. When somebody calls on TV, if someone is bluffing they just say you got it and muck their cards. Wouldn't it be benificial to see what they were bluffing with to get an idea of their play?The phrase of "Pay to see your cards" is always used but never done. I have called many times but it seems acceptable to let them muck their cards. the problem is it's great to win but I have noticed when you call and win they get upset when you ask to see what they mucked. I get lines like "what do you care you won" "thats bad table manners" Fortunately for me I'm easy on the eyes so their not usually mean about it but if I paid shouldn't I get to see?When we play in the poker room for hours at a 5/10 table it helps me to know what someone bluffed with so I can make a mental note. Is it my right if I call to see the hand that I called win or loose?? and If so how come the proffessionals dont do it???Can anyone help a lady out???
That is the whole point. They are mucking to keep from giving you any information. That is their right. You only have to show your hand to take down the pot. They are under no rules based nor "ethical" obligation to show their hand just because you "paid to see the cards"And yes, It is poor etiquette to ask to see their mucked cards - you are putting them into a position where they have to tell you "no"However, I do have one suggestion. Since you called a bet, you do not have to show your cards first. Just sit and wait for them to show, they will either need to show before you show, or they will muck, indicating a total bluff.
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hi welcome, haloI have one suggestion right off the bat.Please don't mention your husband anymore in your post.It ruins the fantasy.Now, to the post.It is my understanding that you have the right to see any hands that went to showdown. So, just ask if you want to. And deal with the social stigma.

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Poker really is a game of house rules. Each establishemnt sets its rules.That said, a commonly used set of rules is Robert's Rules of Poker. Robert as in Bob Ciaffone, owner/editor of CardPlayer magazine.http://pokercoach.us/RobsPkrRules6.htm"Any player who has been dealt in may request to see any hand that is eligible to participate in the showdown, even if the opponent's hand or the winning hand has been mucked. However, this is a privilege that may be revoked if abused. If a player other than the pot winner asks to see a hand that has been folded, that hand is dead. If the winning player asks to see a losing player’s hand, both hands are live, and the best hand wins."However, of all the rules of poker, this is likely the most "controversial". In fact, many cardrooms have been changing the rule.http://www.cardplayer.com/magazine/article/14715"There are two basic schools of thought regarding rules for showing hands. The first is what I call the "traditional school." The traditional rule in poker is that all hands at the showdown must be shown to the whole table upon request of anyone in the game. Those who wish to retain this rule recognize that it has drawbacks, but believe any rule controlling the showing of hands will have drawbacks. They also believe the new rules used in some places are inadequate to address the situation, so we should stick with what we have, needing the traditional rules to police the game and make the players feel comfortable that there is no collusion taking place.The other school, which is steadily growing, is what I will call the "revisionist school," which states that we need to take a fresh look at the situation and realize that it is better to eliminate non-winning hands from being shown. This school believes the showing of non-winning hands is of minimal value in the prevention of cheating (because cheaters can simply muck their hands before the final bet) and adds a great deal of unpleasantness and friction to the atmosphere of playing."http://www.cardplayer.com/magazine/article/15227"Any player who has been dealt in may request to see any hand that has been called, even if the opponent's hand or the winning hand has been mucked. This rule is intended to detect possible collusion, and the requesting player must be able to substantiate the reason for asking to see a hand."The answer is, there is no answer. Some people don't like to show. Others like to be shown.

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At any casino I've been to, you can ask to see any hand that has been called at showdown. People may give you dirty looks, but if you really want to see them and think it will be a big help, then go for it. Online, most sites have features that allow you to see all showed down hands.Refer to the above posts for the specifics of the rules.

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Screw that!Demand to see their cards, I do all the time. Brings up a funny story, 150 dollar multi at a casino, this guy probably like 22, that thinks he is a lot better then he is, is involved in a pot. Pretty talkative too.Anyways, he bluffs the whole way, gets called on the river too and mucks his hand (he was first to act). I ask to his cards (I wasn't even involved in the hand yet I still have the right), he gets really mad, this is the 2nd time I've asked to see his cards and now he is taking it personel. He tries to shove his cards into the muck, while I continue to ask to see them. He finally says "I had 7 2! You happy now? I had 7 duece!"I laugh and tell him that I don't believe him and that I want to see his cards.The dealer pulls out his cards and sure enough, they were 7 2. LOL!He didnt talk too much after.Needless to say the first opportunity he had to ask to see my cards he took it.Haha good stuff

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However, I do have one suggestion. Since you called a bet, you do not have to show your cards first. Just sit and wait for them to show, they will either need to show before you show, or they will muck, indicating a total bluff.
if you call their bet and wait for them to show and they simply muck, does that mean that you now don't have to show? since you're hand is the last remaining live hand, do you still have to show your cards to win the pot?
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DON'T EVER ask to see a losing hand. it is the one rule of etiquette you should never break unless you think there is collusion.i've seen people lose pots when the guy wanted to fold and the would-be winner asked to see his cards when the guy who wanted to muck misread the board and a tabled hand is live and can be declared a winner.if someone asks to see my hand, i say, "if you ever ask to see my hand again i'm never going to let you fold without asking you to table it."think about how pissed you would be if you are running terrible, someone sucks out on a two outer and then goes "let me see those cards." when you've been playing for years you'll understand what an a-hole move it is, but until then don't do it.i can't believe the responses in this thread are in support. it's obvious none of them have any clue what they are talking about and i would be suprised if any of them have 200 hours playing live in a casino.

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if you call their bet and wait for them to show and they simply muck, does that mean that you now don't have to show? since you're hand is the last remaining live hand, do you still have to show your cards to win the pot?
Yeah. You could show 22 on a board of AAKKJ and win, because the other player doesn't have any cards.
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hi welcome, haloI have one suggestion right off the bat.Please don't mention your husband anymore in your post.It ruins the fantasy.
Ok point taken.....Its just me easy on the eyes...Thanks everyone for your input. I will take all the advice and use it accordingly. Since I dont play for money online it is all about the poker room at Winstar. Usually my easy going nature prevents too much hostility, but it is nice to see the others cards when the hand is over. I like the idea of just waiting till they show since I called. If I am in the hand at the end I always show ever since I mucked a winning hand...another (expensive) story for another time. So all I am asking for was what yall told me.
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I agree completely with Navy .... whenever someone asks they are asking for their own benefit/knowledge (exactly what the OP wants) versus trying to determine collusion. The only reason you are able to ask (suposedly) is if you suspect collusion ... that is the integrity/motive behing the "rule", yet 90% of players, dealers and floor staff don't know it, they just know that anyone can ask.One of the most abused rules in poker, imo .... especially when someone who folded preflop wants to see all hands .... total bullchit!

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DON'T EVER ask to see a losing hand. it is the one rule of etiquette you should never break unless you think there is collusion.i've seen people lose pots when the guy wanted to fold and the would-be winner asked to see his cards when the guy who wanted to muck misread the board and a tabled hand is live and can be declared a winner.if someone asks to see my hand, i say, "if you ever ask to see my hand again i'm never going to let you fold without asking you to table it."think about how pissed you would be if you are running terrible, someone sucks out on a two outer and then goes "let me see those cards." when you've been playing for years you'll understand what an a-hole move it is, but until then don't do it.i can't believe the responses in this thread are in support. it's obvious none of them have any clue what they are talking about and i would be suprised if any of them have 200 hours playing live in a casino.
Online Hand histories spoil people. I'm not sure that the courtesy for not asking to see a hand applies to some one who river bluffs you and as the OP put it, "You paid to see."
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Online Hand histories spoil people. I'm not sure that the courtesy for not asking to see a hand applies to some one who river bluffs you and as the OP put it, "You paid to see."
It applies in all situations. I do agree that HH's spoil people. It makes PokerTracker a hugely useful tool.
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The phrase of "Pay to see your cards" is always used but never done. I have called many times but it seems acceptable to let them muck their cards. the problem is it's great to win but I have noticed when you call and win they get upset when you ask to see what they mucked. I get lines like "what do you care you won" "thats bad table manners" Fortunately for me I'm easy on the eyes so their not usually mean about it but if I paid shouldn't I get to see?
It is bad ettiquete because you have already won the pot, and there is no need to see his/her cards in that particular spot. I have also heard some horror stories about people who have requested to see a hand that was about to be mucked, and then that player who WAS going to fold ended up with the winning hand and didn't know it...Now because you wanted to see his hand you lose the pot.But this all depends on how it was done? If they bet on the river, and I call. I wait for them to show, if they don't show, and just decide to muck, I then... a.) Win the pot outright, b.) Get to muck MY hand without HIM seeing what I called with, so in my mind he is losing more by not seeing what I called him with. Win/win situation in my book.
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But this all depends on how it was done? If they bet on the river, and I call. I wait for them to show, if they don't show, and just decide to muck, I then... a.) Win the pot outright, b.) Get to muck MY hand without HIM seeing what I called with, so in my mind he is losing more by not seeing what I called him with. Win/win situation in my book.
This is wrong. In order for the pot to be awarded at showdown, a hand must be tabled. If you call and villian mucks, You MUST show your hand.
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This is wrong. In order for the pot to be awarded at showdown, a hand must be tabled. If you call and villian mucks, You MUST show your hand.
Nope. Not at the 3 Casinos I play at. If they muck, I win. No showdown requirred.
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Yep, but who cares? It usually ends up working out to my advantage anyways.
Example from golf:Suppose Tiger Woods is on the 18th tee in the deciding match of the Ryder Cup, and is level with (say) Padraig Harrington. Harrington has teed off and hit it down the middle.Woods steps up, and as he starts his downswing Harrington pulls out a siren and blasts it in Tiger's ear, causing him to slice the ball wildly into the water. Harrington goes on to win the hole and the Ryder cup for Europe.It isn't against the rules to do that, it's just bad etiquette. It would also work out to Harrington's advantage. You know why he wouldn't? Because he is not a tool.
Nope. Not at the 3 Casinos I play at. If they muck, I win. No showdown requirred.
I'm fairly confident this is the rule as well. You are the only remaining player with cards. Where else can the chips go? If (for some insane reason) you refused to show, would the pot be split with the guy who mucked?
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That is the whole point. They are mucking to keep from giving you any information. That is their right.
See, that's just it. It's not really their right. Most casinos have a rule that if the calling player wants to see the cards, they can, even when the called player doesn't want to show.Oh, and I'm all for good etiquette at the poker table, but the same assholes whining about etiquette are usually the ones berating others for their play when they're losing. GB
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This is wrong. In order for the pot to be awarded at showdown, a hand must be tabled. If you call and villian mucks, You MUST show your hand.
wrong. sorry.commerce, bike, hollywood park, hawaiian gardens, morongo, pechanga, wynn, bellagio, harrah's new orleans, hustler.
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Nope. Not at the 3 Casinos I play at. If they muck, I win. No showdown requirred.
Same here. I've had it happen both ways, where I've mucked a complete bluff and villain doesn't have to show and where villain has mucked and I haven't had to show. If you're gonna show one card though, you DO have to show both cards in order to be considered for the pot.
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