Nut Flush Draw + Tp

[dms26 3]

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.25 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)BB ($12.65)UTG ($22.64)UTG+1 ($12.11)MP1 ($25.08)MP2 ($24.40)MP3 ($9.81)CO ($30.80)Hero ($20.05)SB ($38.05)Preflop: Hero is Button with A , 2 . UTG calls $0.25, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.25, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.25, 1 fold, BB checks.Flop: ($1.10) A , 3 , 6 (4 players)BB checks, UTG bets $1.1, MP1 folds, Hero raises to $3, BB folds, UTG raises to $10.1OK my main question is, is this a bad re-raise?

[CrazyJoe 0]

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.25 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)BB ($12.65)UTG ($22.64)UTG+1 ($12.11)MP1 ($25.08)MP2 ($24.40)MP3 ($9.81)CO ($30.80)Hero ($20.05)SB ($38.05)Preflop: Hero is Button with A , 2 . UTG calls $0.25, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.25, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.25, 1 fold, BB checks.Flop: ($1.10) A , 3 , 6 (4 players)BB checks, UTG bets $1.1, MP1 folds, Hero raises to $3, BB folds, UTG raises to $10.1OK my main question is, is this a bad re-raise?

i probably play bad in spots like this, but i always seem to get it all in on flops like this. all i see is pair + FD and i get all wacky sticking my money in, ironically, NOT so much if it's top pair, since you prob lose 2 outs. If i'm reraising it's to get it all in and gamble with my probably 12 outs, otherwise I call flop and turn, prob fold river UI if he fires all 3 times.

[tripdeuces 0]

The raise isn't bad. Your hand is huge and against a set you still have 9 outs so a shove here isn't bad. In closing i think you probably should go with it after the raise. he might have AJ in this spot which gives you an additional 3 outs. just calling down telegraphs your hand and any club would probably be an action killer so this approach gets the most money in the pot for when you hit.

[Zach6668 513]

The raise isn't bad. Your hand is huge and against a set you still have 9 outs so a shove here isn't bad. In closing i think you probably should go with it after the raise. he might have AJ in this spot which gives you an additional 3 outs. just calling down telegraphs your hand and any club would probably be an action killer so this approach gets the most money in the pot for when you hit.

I doubt we have a huge edge here. We're quite a bit behind a set. We only have 30% equity vs 66.Against a hand like AJ, we're only 46%.Against A6, we're 36%.Normally I like gambling with combo draws, but once he 3-bets, we don't have the equity we need.

[tripdeuces 0]

Blah you are right sir. Buuuuut Zach suited cards are soooooo pretty

[mtdesmoines 3]

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.25 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)BB ($12.65)UTG ($22.64)UTG+1 ($12.11)MP1 ($25.08)MP2 ($24.40)MP3 ($9.81)CO ($30.80)Hero ($20.05)SB ($38.05)Preflop: Hero is Button with A , 2 . UTG calls $0.25, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.25, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.25, 1 fold, BB checks.Flop: ($1.10) A , 3 , 6 (4 players)BB checks, UTG bets $1.1, MP1 folds, Hero raises to $3, BB folds, UTG raises to $10.1OK my main question is, is this a bad re-raise?

Bad? I don't mind it. It's what you do after that reraise that counts.

[rayovac 0]

Why does it seem to me that we are trying to maximize value with a draw and TP w/ shitty kicker?In the perfect mindset wouldn't one simply call this first post flop bet against the villian when you have anywhere from 9 to 14 outs twice???

[Zach6668 513]

In the perfect mindset wouldn't one simply call this first post flop bet against the villian when you have anywhere from 9 to 14 outs twice???

Because when we do have 13-14 outs twice we have an equity edge and therefore our raise shows a positive return.

[rayovac 0]

Because when we do have 13-14 outs twice we have an equity edge and therefore our raise shows a positive return.

Ok. Point Taken.But.......Shouldn't then our raise be more dramatic? To say, $5.50? We can then guarantee that he'll push on top of us and we'll be getting absolute maximum value. With the way we played it, I can see a legitimate reason for folding. If you induce a bigger raise, and commit yourself, then you are getting maximum return.

[NEtwowilldo 0]

This whole decision is math based. Put him on a range, and pokerstove it. Figure out your equity and act accordingly.

[Zach6668 513]

Ok. Point Taken.But.......Shouldn't then our raise be more dramatic? To say, $5.50? We can then guarantee that he'll push on top of us and we'll be getting absolute maximum value. With the way we played it, I can see a legitimate reason for folding. If you induce a bigger raise, and commit yourself, then you are getting maximum return.

We don't really want to commit ourselves if he 3-bets, because that means our equity is significantly lower than we hoped.If we didn't have top pair, weak kicker, it would be a different story, but his betting tells us he has something better than us, to start with, but usually a hand that either has us drawing to try to pair the 2 (if he has AK or something of the sort), or even runner runner (if he has a set), in addition to our flush outs (which are further hurt by him potentially having a set. Essentially, once he 3 bets, the fact that we have top pair is pretty much negligible, and we are drawing to at most 9 outs. If you read my above post, you'd see what our equity is in each case. If has has a hand as weak as AJ, we're only 46% to win. If he has a set, we're 30%.This hand looks pretty, but it really isn't as good as it first looks.The first raise is fine because 1) we could be ahead, 2) semi bluffs are fun and profitable if played right 3) we don't have enough info to suggest he has two pair or a set. Also, I like the sizing because it builds a pot, and has some fold equity if we need it. However, before he 3-bets, we think we have anywhere between 9 and 14 outs, for the flush, trip aces, and our two pair outs. However, I would argue our aces are almost never outs, as he'd have to have limped 63o in order for the ace to help us, so we have up to 13 outs, really, if we are behind, so the raise is fine, imo.

[David_Nicoson 1]

Because when we do have 13-14 outs twice we have an equity edge and therefore our raise shows a positive return.

That's not, in itself, a reason to raise. We're probably going to show a positive return by calling, too. It's a question of which is better.

[Zach6668 513]

That's not, in itself, a reason to raise. We're probably going to show a positive return by calling, too. It's a question of which is better.

Well ya, but the benefits to raising are pretty clear. Most notably, we can win the pot outright without having to hit one of our outs. Secondly, we get money in the pot, so when we do hit, we can bet more and get called more often, we also disguise our hand. Finally, if we call, and a scare card hits, there's nothing stopping him from just shutting down and we gain nothing from hitting our draw.

[danc1984 0]

That's not, in itself, a reason to raise. We're probably going to show a positive return by calling, too. It's a question of which is better.

What is our line of we call and miss the turn? Do we just fold our hand then? Does this make a reraise the better option?

[David_Nicoson 1]

What is our line of we call and miss the turn? Do we just fold our hand then? Does this make a reraise the better option?

There are lots of variables. I think that mostly depends on our opponent's tendencies. There might be something sufficiently scary on the turn for us to launch a bluff.

[David_Nicoson 1]

Well ya, but the benefits to raising are pretty clear. Most notably, we can win the pot outright without having to hit one of our outs. Secondly, we get money in the pot, so when we do hit, we can bet more and get called more often, we also disguise our hand. Finally, if we call, and a scare card hits, there's nothing stopping him from just shutting down and we gain nothing from hitting our draw.

Yeah, sorry. I was Captain Obvious there.

[danc1984 0]

There are lots of variables. I think that mostly depends on our opponent's tendencies. There might be something sufficiently scary on the turn for us to launch a bluff.

If we just call the reraise on the flop the pot on the turn will be just over $20 and we will be left with just under $10. Say we miss the turn but a 4 or 7 fall to complete a possible straight draw, do we have enough chips left to bluff the turn successfully, taking into account how much strength the villain showed on the flop? If we put him on a decent ace he probably feels he will be getting the odds to call our all-in on the turn.

[David_Nicoson 1]

If we just call the reraise on the flop the pot on the turn will be just over $20 and we will be left with just under $10. Say we miss the turn but a 4 or 7 fall to complete a possible straight draw, do we have enough chips left to bluff the turn successfully, taking into account how much strength the villain showed on the flop? If we put him on a decent ace he probably feels he will be getting the odds to call our all-in on the turn.

Yeah, I never really considered flat calling the 10. I assume we all push there. It's a question of calling the first bet or raising.

[Zach6668 513]

Yeah, sorry. I was Captain Obvious there.

That's ok, I didn't type that out for you.

[danc1984 0]

Yeah, I never really considered flat calling the 10. I assume we all push there. It's a question of calling the first bet or raising.

Oh yeah sweet as, sorry I got confused as to which flop bet you were talking about. Personally I think calling or raising the inital flop bet depends on the villain. If he loves top pair and will pay off with it I would just call the flop whereas if he is decent, I would go ahead and raise as the OP played it.

[Zach6668 513]

Yeah, I never really considered flat calling the 10. I assume we all push there. It's a question of calling the first bet or raising.

I think the first raise is a must, actually. For one, we could be ahead, and two, we think we have a decent equity in the hand for a semibluff purposes, free turn card if we like, etc. Actually, a ton of good things can happen by us raising that flop.I think once we get reraised though, we're in a bit of trouble, definitely equity-wise, anyways. If we were to shove there, since we're always getting called, we're putting in 17ish to win 24ish, so we'd need to have 41.4% equity to break even. We generally don't when he 3-bets.Calling, however $7 to win $14, so we'd need to improve 33% of the time on the turn alone to make that call profitable, since even our best case scenario of 12 outs, only hits like 25% of the time, although we have about 1.3-1 implied odds to add in as well, which makes it closer to breakeven, and maybe slightly +EV if we get his whole stack when we hit, which we almost always will.Mathematically, we should almost actually fold the flop, if we think we can narrow his range down to Ax, two pair, and sets.That kinda makes calling the initial bet look better, lol.

[David_Nicoson 1]

It's a sin to re-open the betting with a lot of nut outs in position and then fold. We should raise here only if we're willing to stack off on the flop, imho.

Board: Ah 3c 6cDead:  	equity 	win 	tie 		  pots won 	pots tied	Hand 0: 35.902%  33.01% 02.89% 			 4575 		  401.00   { Ac2c }Hand 1: 64.098%  61.20% 02.89% 			 8483 		  401.00   { 66, 33, A6s, A3s, A3o }

Board: Ah 3c 6cDead:  	equity 	win 	tie 		  pots won 	pots tied	Hand 0: 40.044%  38.76% 01.28% 		   6140 	  203.00   { Ac2c }Hand 1: 59.956%  58.67% 01.28% 		   9294 	  203.00   { 66, 33, A6s, A3s, 7c4c, 5c4c, 5c2c, 4c2c, A6o }

Board: Ah 3c 6cDead:  	equity 	win 	tie 		  pots won 	pots tied	Hand 0: 44.940%  43.57% 01.37% 			 14233 		  449.00   { Ac2c }Hand 1: 55.060%  53.69%	01.37% 		 17539 		  449.00   { 66, 33, AKs, A6s, A3s, 7c4c, 63s, 5c4c, 5c2c, 4c2c, AKo, A3o, 63o }

[dms26 3]

I think the first raise is a must, actually. For one, we could be ahead, and two, we think we have a decent equity in the hand for a semibluff purposes, free turn card if we like, etc. Actually, a ton of good things can happen by us raising that flop.

The main reason I raised is because of an earlier hand where I had QT clubs on a AQJ flop with 2 clubs. I was in the CO and just called a flop bet, instead the button raised behind me with A6 and ended up winning the pot. So I was kicking myself for playing it so passively.That leads to this hand where I really didn't expect to get 3 bet, I thought my raise would at least slow him down and I could decide what I wanted to do on the turn. Before he 3 bet me I was putting him on a weakish ace, so I figured a raise might even get him to fold.

[David_Nicoson 1]

The main reason I raised is because of an earlier hand where I had QT clubs on a AQJ flop with 2 clubs. I was in the CO and just called a flop bet, instead the button raised behind me with A6 and ended up winning the pot. So I was kicking myself for playing it so passively.

So look at what's different here:

• Your club draw isn't too the nuts.
• You're out of position relative to your opponent.

[dms26 3]

So look at what's different here:

• Your club draw isn't too the nuts.
• You're out of position relative to your opponent.

so you're saying I should have raised with the QT but flat called with the A2 right?