Lucoo_ 0 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Hand leaves me kind of puzzled as to what should be the right action PF. The reraiser seemed like a standard TAG doing nothing out of line. Shortie seemed donkish. Do i 4 bet, call or fold ? PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (7 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comsaw flopUTG ($39.65)MP1 ($9.25)MP2 ($50)CO ($10.50)Button ($50.45)Hero (SB) ($50.25)BB ($10.40)Preflop: Hero is SB with Q, Q1 fold, MP1 bets $2, MP2 raises to $5.50, 2 folds, Hero ??? , Link to post Share on other sites
viva la cam 0 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 smooth call and see the flop is what i would do... look for the set or all low cards but still be scared of aces or kings.... Link to post Share on other sites
droberts 3 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 smooth call and see the flop is what i would do... look for the set or all low cards but still be scared of aces or kings....i dont really prefer smooth calling OOP ... i prefer a 4 bet and maybe fold to a 5 bet/shove... depending on reads and suchbut i have been known to donk off with QQ Link to post Share on other sites
Temporary Nuts 1 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 cold call the three bet just like you would with AA/KK and proceed with caution Link to post Share on other sites
droberts 3 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 cold call the three bet just like you would with AA/KK and proceed with cautioni dont think i have ever called a 3 bet with AA or KK... i might should learn that play Link to post Share on other sites
Merby 3 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 4-bet to $18 Link to post Share on other sites
kreppsen 0 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 i dont think i have ever called a 3 bet with AA or KK... i might should learn that playThere's no real answer on how to play hands. Each hand is unique and should be played induvidually depending on the situation. Just don't fold it!! Link to post Share on other sites
viva la cam 0 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 i dont really prefer smooth calling OOP ... i prefer a 4 bet and maybe fold to a 5 bet/shove... depending on reads and suchbut i have been known to donk off with QQhahahaha thats funny... damm donk with queens lol jk Link to post Share on other sites
Lucoo_ 0 Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 i dont think i have ever called a 3 bet with AA or KK... i might should learn that playYou definately should if you play 25NL or above Link to post Share on other sites
rrumsey 0 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 depending on how tight villain is, 4 bet or cold call but both are risky, void of reads I 4 bet Link to post Share on other sites
SwolyswoND 1 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Just the opposite for me. Void of reads I flat... the 3bet came right after the PFR, still from EP/MP, and was not large, meaning he wants the original raiser to stick around. This smacks of AA/KK/AK and nothing wider... so flat and eval the flop - we're getting odds to set mine here. Link to post Share on other sites
XXEddie 0 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 hahahaha thats funny... damm donk with queens lol jkJust because you have queens doesn't mean it is correct to stack off. Link to post Share on other sites
droberts 3 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Just the opposite for me. Void of reads I flat... the 3bet came right after the PFR, still from EP/MP, and was not large, meaning he wants the original raiser to stick around. This smacks of AA/KK/AK and nothing wider... so flat and eval the flop - we're getting odds to set mine here.say the original raiser was a fish... u wouldnt 3 bet with JJ or 1010 there in the 3 bet spot.... its hard to say that its AA/KK/AK and nothing wider... Link to post Share on other sites
Lucoo_ 0 Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 say the original raiser was a fish... u wouldnt 3 bet with JJ or 1010 there in the 3 bet spot.... its hard to say that its AA/KK/AK and nothing wider...Yeah i agree on this, i thought he could have like TT-JJ and AQ/AK trying to isolate the donk shorstack. So i went ahead and 4 bet to 14. Both players folded Link to post Share on other sites
SwolyswoND 1 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 say the original raiser was a fish... u wouldnt 3 bet with JJ or 1010 there in the 3 bet spot.... its hard to say that its AA/KK/AK and nothing wider...This is why I hate FR cash, but no, I usually don't 3bet JJ/TT EP to an UTG opener. That might be a leak. Even if it isn't only AA/KK/AK, I'm not sure I see the value in a 4bet. Is villain going to call with JJ-99? Probably not. He's more likely to 5bet bluff us with those hands than he is to flat, and we might have to fold the best hand. So we're folding out the worst hands, and only getting called/raised by hands that crush us, or that are flipping with position. And we're certainly not going to stack a villain who flats our 4bet with AK, aside from some miracle flop like QKK. Maybe some more dedicated FR regs can help me out with this, but I'm really not seeing much value in anything other than a call here. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Hand leaves me kind of puzzled as to what should be the right action PF. The reraiser seemed like a standard TAG doing nothing out of line. Shortie seemed donkish. Do i 4 bet, call or fold ? PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (7 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comsaw flopUTG ($39.65)MP1 ($9.25)MP2 ($50)CO ($10.50)Button ($50.45)Hero (SB) ($50.25)BB ($10.40)Preflop: Hero is SB with Q, Q1 fold, MP1 bets $2, MP2 raises to $5.50, 2 folds, Hero ??? ,Smooth call and value own MP2 a non-A flop because he's the one with $. Link to post Share on other sites
droberts 3 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 smooth calling also allows mp1 to call pretty much any decent holding/suited connectors/midpair.... the flop comes J 10 7.... then were like wtf OOP....another reason i dont like smooth calling4 bet to $15 and if MP2 shoves prolly fold.... thats my line.EDIT: if i did have AA or KK i could understand flatting and have MP1 shove then MP2 calls and we reshove. Link to post Share on other sites
viva la cam 0 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Just because you have queens doesn't mean it is correct to stack off.i kno its not... thats why i laughed cuz he said he does Link to post Share on other sites
Banner17 0 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Just the opposite for me. Void of reads I flat... the 3bet came right after the PFR, still from EP/MP, and was not large, meaning he wants the original raiser to stick around. This smacks of AA/KK/AK and nothing wider... so flat and eval the flop - we're getting odds to set mine here.I would feel fairly confident that the 3 bettor felt like his raise would most likely result in a heads up match up him vs the original raiser who has stack size of 9.25. His raise was to 5.50 so it pretty much forces the original raiser to make a commitment to the hand preflop. That being said I feel like his range could be 99-AA, AK, AQ, and maybe KQs. I feel like we'd fair pretty well versus this range so I'd stick the 4th bet in there. The problem is we are out of position, but I feel as though we have to give the 3 bettor a chance to fold his hand here. Same token, I never play no limit very often so my advice is probably not very good. Link to post Share on other sites
Temporary Nuts 1 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I would feel fairly confident that the 3 bettor felt like his raise would most likely result in a heads up match up him vs the original raiser who has stack size of 9.25. His raise was to 5.50 so it pretty much forces the original raiser to make a commitment to the hand preflop. That being said I feel like his range could be 99-AA, AK, AQ, and maybe KQs.I agree with this part, but that what's make me hesitant to 4bet with, well, anything.Think about how the likely action will go. Sure, we will get outflopped sometimes, but we also do a great job of committing nearly every worse hand on almost every flop. We also draw extra $ in.As far as the other comment went about set mining, you'll nearly never have the correct odds to set mine by cold calling a three bet. Your hand has to have some large immediate showdown value to play against a 3bet when you have yet to enter the pot. The reason for this isa) You will not stack the other person every time you hit a set, and getting 10:1, you would have to get them all in on the flop every single time you hit a setb ) The pot can be re-opened, which shoots a) to hell even if you somehow manage it.Droberts, I don't recommend starting to just flat 3bets with high pairs in situations where you have entered the pot already... just in situations where you are facing a 3bet cold. Link to post Share on other sites
Luke00016 0 Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Wrong thread, please ignore or delete. Link to post Share on other sites
droberts 3 Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 i kno its not... thats why i laughed cuz he said he doesstfushow me ONE HH where u dumped QQ preflop. Link to post Share on other sites
kreppsen 0 Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 stfushow me ONE HH where u dumped QQ preflop.You don't fold queens on flop to a raise like this, you just don't. Viva, if you've folded queens here that's a leak I'd try to fix asap. Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Villain is 6/6 over 110 hands, first 4 bet that I noticed...v1.08Moooooooooooraaawwwr.Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em $0.02/$0.05 - 8 playersUTG+1 blokkak47: $1.00 MP scotto9593: $2.02 HJ gatubelinha: $6.26 CO dumb cow: $2.00 Button Papa1245: $7.78 BB eFrisbee: $2.10 UTG Hero: $5.00 Preflop: ($0.07) Hero is UTG with (8 players)2 folds, gatubelinha raises to $0.20, 3 folds, Hero raises to $0.60, gatubelinha raises to $1.35, Hero foldsgatubelinha won $1.27(Rake: $0) Link to post Share on other sites
KingJames 11 Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Silly converter messing up the positions again... doubt I'm UTG... Link to post Share on other sites
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