I Haz Overpair ?

[Lucoo_ 0]

So i have JJ in the SB and decide to squeeze, the CO calls while the Original raiser folds. Now what do i do here ? No reads on CO.What do i do if the original raiser calls instead of the CO. He is a nitty multitabling reg with decent winning stats. PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comsaw flopCO ($67.05)Button ($27)Hero (SB) ($50)BB ($105.35)UTG ($74.75)UTG+1 ($52.55)MP1 ($20.60)MP2 ($109.30)Preflop: Hero is SB with J, J3 folds, MP2 bets $1.50, CO calls $1.50, Button calls $1.50, Hero raises to $8, 2 folds, CO calls $6.50, 1 foldFlop: ($19.50) 6, 10, 7(2 players)Hero bets $14, CO raises to $30.50 ....

[kreppsen 0]

Preflop: Hero is SB with J, J3 folds, MP2 bets $1.50, CO calls $1.50, Button calls $1.50, Hero raises to $8, 2 folds, CO calls $6.50, 1 foldFlop: ($19.50) 6, 10, 7(2 players) HERO ???

You got a horrible position, check and wait for him to make a move. Considering he called that 16BB bet of yours he is most likely to have overcards or a pocket >QQ.

[Temporary Nuts 1]

Gross. I'd rather a flop with an overcard than this one with the preflop action. The range is hugely weighted towards mid pocket pairs.I'd go ahead and bet/fold for about half pot on the flop, then turn on the check-calling mode as long as the turn isn't an 8 or 9.If MP2 flats I'd take the same line, but his range is a little stronger so I wouldn't sweat the probability I was facing a set as much.

[Lucoo_ 0]

Gross. I'd rather a flop with an overcard than this one with the preflop action. The range is hugely weighted towards mid pocket pairs.I'd go ahead and bet/fold for about half pot on the flop, then turn on the check-calling mode as long as the turn isn't an 8 or 9.If MP2 flats I'd take the same line, but his range is a little stronger so I wouldn't sweat the probability I was facing a set as much.

If you think if someone is bad enough to call/set mine this big a raise with 77-TT, don't you think he is bad enough to call with Ax of spades or AT ???

[rrumsey 0]

ugh i check and call small bet, re-evaluate turn, i mean i just hate to bet fold the flop he could semi bluff us a ton on this kind of a flop, pray he just lets a card peel and re-evaluate. Im folding if he 2/3- to pot sizes me after the check, probably calling around a half because i am headstrong we probably should check fold almost this flop just nails his range

[droberts 3]

u could probably table select better than that... looks like 5 decent/regs at the table... i always look for tables with people that dont buy in full, i especially dont join if more than one person has 200BB+.but back to the situation. i like betting half pottish, $9 or $10folding to a raise probably... sometimes in this spot i go into a c/c mode and depending on what he does on turn and river decide then.

[rrumsey 0]

folding to a raise probably... sometimes in this spot i go into a c/c mode and depending on what he does on turn and river decide then.

thats is why i wanna check to keep some hands we beat in the hand

[Temporary Nuts 1]

If you think if someone is bad enough to call/set mine this big a raise with 77-TT, don't you think he is bad enough to call with Ax of spades or AT ???

They're not necessarily set mining but more along the lines of... you must hases the AKalso, i didn't rule them out, just saying the range is weighted much harder in that direction

[Luke00016 0]

I'd go ahead and bet/fold for about half pot on the flop, then turn on the check-calling mode as long as the turn isn't an 8 or 9.

How many barrels would you check/call, and what size? I think if we bet the flop and then check the turn, we're setting ourselves up to get bluffed off our hand a ton. And do we call 1/2 PSB's on the turn/river assuming safe cards? I can't think of many hands villain may be holding that we beat in this case, excepting perhaps AKs drawing to a nut flush and overs. . .or maybe AT if villain is terrible.

ugh i check and call small bet, re-evaluate turn, i mean i just hate to bet fold the flop he could semi bluff us a ton on this kind of a flop, pray he just lets a card peel and re-evaluate. Im folding if he 2/3- to pot sizes me after the check, probably calling around a half because i am headstrong we probably should check fold almost this flop just nails his range

Same question to yourself rrumsey, how many barrels do we check/call? They just feel like hero calls to me, excepting the hands I put villain on above (AKs, AT).Of course, I've been told I put my villain's on way too tight a range in the past, so maybe I'm way off here too?

[Temporary Nuts 1]

How many barrels would you check/call, and what size? I think if we bet the flop and then check the turn, we're setting ourselves up to get bluffed off our hand a ton. And do we call 1/2 PSB's on the turn/river assuming safe cards? I can't think of many hands villain may be holding that we beat in this case, excepting perhaps AKs drawing to a nut flush and overs. . .or maybe AT if villain is terrible.

If you look at stack sizes, a half pot bet will make the turn an automatic shove if there's a bet so it will only be a single barrel ($40 in the pot with $30 effective stacks)... if he fires anything under a shove (which would make me LOL) it's a CRAI... that depends on the turn card though really.and the part about being bluffed off... well...a) not a whole lot of passive opponents will pure float/shove as a bluff in such a large pot... most of them prefer to make tiny bluffsB) although they may not bluff a ton they may hugely overvalue/protect hands on the turn... and there's not too much we get value from when we barrel twice.

[Temporary Nuts 1]

How many barrels would you check/call, and what size? I think if we bet the flop and then check the turn, we're setting ourselves up to get bluffed off our hand a ton. And do we call 1/2 PSB's on the turn/river assuming safe cards? I can't think of many hands villain may be holding that we beat in this case, excepting perhaps AKs drawing to a nut flush and overs. . .or maybe AT if villain is terrible.

If you look at stack sizes, a half pot bet will make the turn an automatic shove if there's a bet so it will only be a single barrel ($40 in the pot with $30 effective stacks)... if he fires anything under a shove (which would make me LOL) it's a CRAI... that depends on the turn card though really.and the part about being bluffed off... well...a) not a whole lot of passive opponents will pure float/shove as a bluff in such a large pot... most of them prefer to make tiny bluffsb ) although they may not bluff a ton they may hugely overvalue/protect hands on the turn... and there's not too much we get value from when we barrel twice.

[Lucoo_ 0]

Flop: ($19.50) 6, 10, 7(2 players)Hero bets $14, CO raises to $30.50 Ok so i went with a bet a litte bit bigger then half pot and villian raises the flop... Fold or shove ?

[rrumsey 0]

Same question to yourself rrumsey, how many barrels do we check/call? They just feel like hero calls to me, excepting the hands I put villain on above (AKs, AT).Of course, I've been told I put my villain's on way too tight a range in the past, so maybe I'm way off here too?

uhm it depends on reads, how aggro villain has played hit flush draws, and what cards come. Im stubbron and will check call a small flop bet and on:A.) blank turns wanna see if villain keeps betting and how much, if it looks like villain is leveraging his turn bet to psb or slight overshove river then im folding out, but Im kind of hoping villain shows down or has something and a bad card comes for him and kills the action to see a cheap riverB.) snap c/f on almost any spades, and insta fold if it was 8+ of spadesI dont wanna barrel here really our hands is rather exposed here, is not hidden at all, only slightly beats top pair, and depending on the villain copuld be the worst hand here a lot. It to me totally depends on villain. Against a total unknown i probably take line above and desperately try and pot control this to save the handI mean even if we are up against AK AQ suited here it is about 50% and we are just praying he misses, with no way of making his outs dead more or less.Extremely stick spot

[kreppsen 0]

Flop: ($19.50) 6, 10, 7(2 players)Hero bets $14, CO raises to $30.50 Ok so i went with a bet a litte bit bigger then half pot and villian raises the flop... Fold or shove ?

I think when betting we got pot commited, and a fold might be a bad move. A shove is probably even worse, he has already put 38 dollars in this pot so he is not likely to fold for you're last 12 if that is what we are hoping for. As rrumsey said even to QKs we are almost 50-50. Personally I would check flop, call small bets, and if the board gets even worse, (ace-king, another spade, etc...) I'm probably folding to any bet.As played, I don't like the position we have put ourselves in and I feel like we are beat or it's a coinflip, that I don't really want to be a part of with only jacks. I think the best play probably would be to fold, any thoughts?

[XXEddie 0]

I think when betting we got pot commited, and a fold might be a bad move. A shove is probably even worse, he has already put 38 dollars in this pot so he is not likely to fold for you're last 12 if that is what we are hoping for. As rrumsey said even to QKs we are almost 50-50. Personally I would check flop, call small bets, and if the board gets even worse, (ace-king, another spade, etc...) I'm probably folding to any bet.As played, I don't like the position we have put ourselves in and I feel like we are beat or it's a coinflip, that I don't really want to be a part of with only jacks. I think the best play probably would be to fold, any thoughts?

I'll take any coin flip with 44% of my stack in.

[kreppsen 0]

I'll take any coin flip with 44% of my stack in.

I still feel we're beat here, though we really just left ourselves with 2 bad options betting the flop...

[Temporary Nuts 1]

I still feel we're beat here, though we really just left ourselves with 2 bad options betting the flop...

The flop is an autobet it's just a question of how much and what the plan is afterwards.If you don't bet the flop here you should just use your money to stake me because it's more productive than than lighting your money on fire, which is essentially what you're doing when you don't bet this flop.With no reads on CO I think this is a fold... it depends on what type of range you give him and what you weight it towards...Text results appended to pokerstove.txt 12,870 games 0.001 secs 12,870,000 games/secBoard: Ts 6s 7hDead: equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 21.379% 21.34% 00.03% 2747 4.50 { JcJh }Hand 1: 78.621% 78.59% 00.03% 10114 4.50 { TT, 77-66, AsJs, As9s, As8s, 8s7s }Please note though if he ever does this with anything other than a big draw or set you can get it in here...

[kreppsen 0]

The flop is an autobet it's just a question of how much and what the plan is afterwards.If you don't bet the flop here you should just use your money to stake me because it's more productive than than lighting your money on fire, which is essentially what you're doing when you don't bet this flop.

I don't agree with you on this. By checking we keep the pot small and we might get some more info if we are ahead or not. The raise he just made probably shows that we're more likely behind than ahead. We have no reads on villain so putting him on hands is hard. I fold from this position even though we have a lot of our chips in this pot.

[XXEddie 0]

Temporary Nuts, how can you put A8s and A9s into the range, but not JTs+? Is it because raising with those hands would be mediocre at best and with no reads we assume villain wouldn't?

[Temporary Nuts 1]

Temporary Nuts, how can you put A8s and A9s into the range, but not JTs+? Is it because raising with those hands would be mediocre at best and with no reads we assume villain wouldn't?

It's specifically A spade 9 spade and A spade 8 spade... the ten of spade is on the board... there are more combination of these hands I guess but it makes only a marginal differenceI'm assuming the typical unknown opponent who call calls preflop into a 3bet pot isn't raising with one pair.That's why I said... if he ever does it with anything other than a big draw or a set it is correct to get it in.

[SCS 0]

I think when betting we got pot commited, and a fold might be a bad move. A shove is probably even worse, he has already put 38 dollars in this pot so he is not likely to fold for you're last 12 if that is what we are hoping for. As rrumsey said even to QKs we are almost 50-50. Personally I would check flop, call small bets, and if the board gets even worse, (ace-king, another spade, etc...) I'm probably folding to any bet.As played, I don't like the position we have put ourselves in and I feel like we are beat or it's a coinflip, that I don't really want to be a part of with only jacks. I think the best play probably would be to fold, any thoughts?

The problem with checking is that you miss value, plus a lot of turn cards suck for you and you'll have to c/f the turn the majority of the time.