new donkey hand, smasharooing in limit?

[RayPowers 0]

Comments in bold as usual, bbejay is short stacked in this hand.***** Hand History for Game 13383093 *****0.10/0.20 Texas Hold'em (Split Limit) Table Shiner (10 max) (Real Money) -- Seat 9 is the buttonLUCASSY : Small Blind ($0.05)king_king : Big Blind ($0.10)** Dealing down cards **Dealt to Ray_Powers [ 2d Ad ]beejay : Call ($0.10)Mini : Call ($0.10)LaughingPenguin : Call ($0.10)Steeevee : Foldachi007 : FoldRay_Powers : Call ($0.10)It's a loose game. I expect both blinds to call. I feel well priced to try to hit my nut flush draw with this hand. I feel like I'm following the smash theory of NL with this hand, but I also don't think calling is bad here.adpres : Foldottoto : Call ($0.10)LUCASSY : Call ($0.05)king_king : Check** Dealing Flop ** : [ 5s Ac 3c ]So much for the flush. Well I have Top Pair Worst Effing possible kicker... But noone raised preflop, I may have the best hand. I also have a gutshot straight draw.LUCASSY : Checkking_king : Checkbeejay : CheckMini : CheckLaughingPenguin : Bet ($0.10)Ray_Powers : Call ($0.10)I expect several callers because of the flush draw. I want to call to see how it goes here. I think if the turn misses me I may bail. If I get raised on the flop, I may bail, or at most check/call down.ottoto : Call ($0.10)LUCASSY : Call ($0.10)king_king : Call ($0.10)beejay : FoldMini : Call ($0.10)** Dealing Turn ** : [ 4c ]Why or why, whenever I get a straight, it puts the flush on the board.LUCASSY : Bet ($0.20)king_king : Call ($0.20)Mini : Call ($0.20)LaughingPenguin : Call ($0.20)Well, suddenly Lucassy is betting. I'm unsure if he hit the flush, or maybe a straight like I did. The multiple calls to me indicate that someone else has an ace out there and is calling down. I think I have to just call down here and hope my straight is good. If a betting war ensures, I have to assume someone has the flush.Ray_Powers : Call ($0.20)ottoto : Fold** Dealing River ** : [ 9d ]LUCASSY : Checkking_king : CheckMini : CheckLaughingPenguin : Bet ($0.20)Ray_Powers : Call ($0.20)Lucassy going back to checking was odd. He could be going for the check raise, but I don't see it. Perhaps he had nothing after all. Laughing Penguin was the aggresser on the flop too. If I thought about this more, I probbaly should have raised here. Lucassy probably has nothing. Laughing Penguin probably has A-X. I think this was a missed bet.LUCASSY : Call ($0.20)king_king : Call ($0.20)Mini : Fold** Summary **Main Pot: $2.95 | Rake: $0.15Thoughts?

[Abbaddabba 0]

At a 10c/20c game, there's no way you're folding a straight to a single bet with 3 to a flush on the board (obviously), but that doesnt make it right to go nuts with the bets with a vulnerable hand.Your relative position to the bettor is crap, so raising isn't so great, especially on the river. How often is something less than a straight calling that river? Not often. You want overcalls from everyone, and raising both messes up a lot of those overcalls AND opens up action to the bettor who may have the flush.Raising the turn isnt terrible though. You probably get double value out of anyone with a mid to high club who is willing to call 2 bets cold. I still wouldnt do it, but it's better than raising the river i think.

[speedz99 145]

Anyone else consider raising that flop?

[RayPowers 0]

Anyone else consider raising that flop?

My first friend I showed it to did, but I disagree at such micro limits. The main purpose for a raise there to me seems like you want to try to scare off Ace Medium Kicker, and in micro limits, that just doesn't happen. :(At higher limits, yes, I would raise the flop.Ray

[hotbacon 0]

Anyone else consider raising that flop?

My first friend I showed it to did, but I disagree at such micro limits. The main purpose for a raise there to me seems like you want to try to scare off Ace Medium Kicker, and in micro limits, that just doesn't happen. :(At higher limits, yes, I would raise the flop.Ray

No, the point is to protect your hand. You want to price out gutshots, middle pairs, etc. If they fold, that's fine; if they call incorrectly, even better.I think the flop is an eaaaaaaaaasy raise.

[RayPowers 0]

No, the point is to protect your hand.  You want to price out gutshots, middle pairs, etc.  If they fold, that's fine; if they call incorrectly, even better.I think the flop is an eaaaaaaaaasy raise.

I'm pricing out my own gutshot? :PI understand your point. I think the issue is that I feared an ace bigger kicker out there, which I didn't think would fold, which meant, unless I hit a 2 or a 4, I was just building a bigger pot for him, not for me.Is this just a completely wrong way of thinking about this? Note that in most of these I am trying to highlight my thought process, but no one said my thought process was necessarily correct....Ray

[thecamelot 0]

Anyone else consider raising that flop?

My first friend I showed it to did, but I disagree at such micro limits. The main purpose for a raise there to me seems like you want to try to scare off Ace Medium Kicker, and in micro limits, that just doesn't happen. :(At higher limits, yes, I would raise the flop.Ray

No, the point is to protect your hand. You want to price out gutshots, middle pairs, etc. If they fold, that's fine; if they call incorrectly, even better.I think the flop is an eaaaaaaaaasy raise.

Wow - I was thinking fold the flop. When you're ahead (which you may very well be), you're not ahead by much, and when you're behind you have a long ways to go. Any club on the turn if it doesn't make a flush already, sets up a redraw for someone with a lone club. Plus the BB is in for free so could have any random hand.Am I out of line here?

[Actuary 3]

w/o reading othersI don't know.Yuo cant protect your hand on the flop or turn. Acting almost last no c/r opportunity.Although you are certainly ahead of most players on the turn, I'm not sure you win enough to raise for value here. That being said..do you win enough to call down. I think ??Problem I have is you really want to fold higher str8 gut shots or one-card weak FD's. And a raise won't accomplish that. You don't want to put in 1/6 of the money here, I dont think yuo win 1/6 of the time..maybe you do; and maybe weak FD do fold to a raise ?...nah...well Calling down or Raising turn are close for me.River scares me. We are getting, I think 14-15 : 1 but turn aggressor acting behind me. I call down too. Maybe I have to pay one more bet, but I'm winning 1/14 times. More than likely I think someone slowing down fears a higher or any flush as much as you. He might have hit his str8 as well. I'm not too confident about this.I think we lose, but not often enough to fold...its close ?

[mrdannyg 274]

raising the flop - this accomplishes pricing out other gutshot straight draws and also the many runner-runner draws that people might catch. it is likely you are ahead at this point, and you have position, so i think a raise here is called for. plus, if you get 3-bet, you can fold almost any turn, and you've found out on the cheap streets.daniel

[Actuary 3]

I misread action..and see now we can face field for 2 on flop.Making them get 10 for 2. Calling with a gut shot or other similar weak draws might be profitable but only if others calls as well. So hopefully the first player folds and others get increasingly lower implied odds..Yes..I agree with HotBacon: Raise the flop. We were very very fortunnate t get the flop better to our immediate right.

[RayPowers 0]

Sinces its slowed down..** Summary **Main Pot: $2.95 | Rake: $0.15Board: [ 5s Ac 3c 4c 9d ]king_king lost $0.60 [ 9c 6h ] [ one pair of nines -- 9d 9c Ac 6h 5s ] wtf?beejay lost $0.10 Mini lost $0.40 LaughingPenguin lost $0.60 [ Th Ah ] [ one pair of aces -- Ah Ac Th 9d 5s ] I had this one dead on.Ray_Powers bet $0.60, collected $2.95, net +$2.35 [ 2d Ad ] [ a straight, five to ace -- 5s 4c 3c 2d Ad ] ottoto lost $0.20 LUCASSY lost $0.60 [ 4s Js ] [ one pair of fours -- 4s 4c Ac Js 9d ] W T F ? ! !Buddy list material there or no?Ray

[rog 0]

Seems to me that a flop raise is pretty standard here. It folds a few chasers most likely. If the button folds, then you've suddenly got last position, so even if nobody else folds, that helps. Also, anyone with a draw or a weak-ish ace likely checks to you on the turn so you get a free card for your draw, and you can fold much easier on the turn to a lead. A lead after no raise means nothing to you. You're playing blind. I dont understand what you mean by pricing out your own gutshot. You have a possibly best made hand AND a gutshot. Even just the gutshot, you might raise for a free card here depending on the table. Raise the flop. That's raise.On the Flop.6-max.Uuuh...where am I?