How Can Religion Exist After Darwin? Is It Bound To Die?

[Greatest I am 0]

How can religion exist after Darwin? Is it bound to die?To my mind, for religionists of all stripe to maintain a faith in a creator God, we, yes we, I an a religionist, we have to throw out most of the science that we have worked hard for 2,000 to gain and learn.Scientists are putting up and not needing to shut up in all fields of study.Religionists are not putting up much of anything and yet we will not shut up. http://fora.tv/2009/11/17/Great_Issues_For...hat_Is_Religion

It seems to me that there are many issues coming to a head where non believers are getting quite peeved with religionists. Even as a religionist, I cannot blame them.More and more militant secular confrontations of religionists are in the offing as more and more of them get tires of being denigrated and told yhey are going to hell if they do not believe as believers do. I do not blame them as I have been told this quite often by those who do not like my personal beliefs in the Godhead.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/victor-steng...o_b_775163.htmlI recognize why religions exist. I can personally see some of the good that churches bring to community.http://www.canada.com/life/Religion+calms+...6785/story.htmlI do not like the way they teach of God though if it happens to be a literal reading or fundamental church.It is my view that all literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are Religionists.They all hurt their parent religions and everyone else who has a belief. They make all believers into laughing stocks and should rethink their position. There is a Godhead but not the God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution. Belief in fantasy and magic is evil.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HKHaClUCw4...&playnext=1They also do much harm to their own.African witches and Jesushttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlRG9gXriVI...feature=relatedJesus Camp 1of 9http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOqGhcwwE1sI do not look forward to a full secular system but if trends continue and I think they will, my grand children will not be able to believe as they wish because of the damage and ill will that believers are presently creating.People are getting brighter. Non believers that is.Not believers. Most seem to not know why they are in religion and I would think that they are there just for the sake of tradition. Traditions that swiftly are showing that they belong to an older time and are dying. http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2010/1...nownothing.htmlI believe that if religion is to stop backsliding, it must shed itself of literalists and fundamentals. Belief in magic and fantasy cannot survive in a world where minds are getting brighter. I D has had it’s day in court and until God steps into our time from His out of time position, according to many, then I fear that secularism will shortly win the war for the hearts and minds of the vast majority.What do you think. The numbers look bad. Most secular morals are starting to show how evil the morals of most Gods are. The number of new literature is coming out against religions and the historicity of Jesus and Moses with back up from Gnostics, Hebrew and Jewish writings and discoveries.Is there any way to reverse these trends without God actually making an appearance or is religion bound to continue to shrink and die?RegardsDL

[colonel Feathers 5]

And now A word from our sponsor.

[SweetDee 0]

That seems about right, all things considered. And then Christ comes back and most of us burn for eternity. You left that part out: Christ coming back and most of us burning for eternity. It's not the most important part necessarily but it does play A part. It might bear adding to your equation? as it were. I mean, I am all for tossing out literalists, but it's pretty useless if the one part they literally got right- Christ coming back when there is no more souls to be saved- is literally true. I mean, quite literally one may want to consider delaying the arrival of that day, by, I don't know, doing ones part to keep God, Jesus and hope in salvation alive a bit so God has reason to look down and go, "Hey, were cool." Or, you could go your route, and do everything you can to make that date a wee bit closer, ruining it for everyone else.Thanks, man, You could be the reason Christ comes back and most of us burn in hell. Much appreciated, dickweed.

[Greatest I am 0]

That seems about right, all things considered. And then Christ comes back and most of us burn for eternity. You left that part out: Christ coming back and most of us burning for eternity. It's not the most important part necessarily but it does play A part. It might bear adding to your equation? as it were. I mean, I am all for tossing out literalists, but it's pretty useless if the one part they literally got right- Christ coming back when there is no more souls to be saved- is literally true. I mean, quite literally one may want to consider delaying the arrival of that day, by, I don't know, doing ones part to keep God, Jesus and hope in salvation alive a bit so God has reason to look down and go, "Hey, were cool." Or, you could go your route, and do everything you can to make that date a wee bit closer, ruining it for everyone else.Thanks, man, You could be the reason Christ comes back and most of us burn in hell. Much appreciated, dickweed.

Must be my English. I thought the word was dickwad.RegardsDL

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

[speedz99 145]

That seems about right, all things considered. And then Christ comes back and most of us burn for eternity. You left that part out: Christ coming back and most of us burning for eternity.

I find the belief in this to be more hilarious than maybe anything else in any religion, which is really saying something. The kind, caring, benevolent son of god is going send us all to BURN IN HELL TO BE TORTURED FOR ALL ETERNITY based on even relatively minor mistakes made in our extremely short and confusing lives on earth. The whole concept is so idiotic that it's nearly impossible for me to believe that, when pressed, anyone but the most brainwashed religious nutcase would actually keep claiming this to be anything but a scary story to keep kids from misbehaving.

[Greatest I am 0]

I find the belief in this to be more hilarious than maybe anything else in any religion, which is really saying something. The kind, caring, benevolent son of god is going send us all to BURN IN HELL TO BE TORTURED FOR ALL ETERNITY based on even relatively minor mistakes made in our extremely short and confusing lives on earth. The whole concept is so idiotic that it's nearly impossible for me to believe that, when pressed, anyone but the most brainwashed religious nutcase would actually keep claiming this to be anything but a scary story to keep kids from misbehaving.

Even this Bishop agrees with us.

RegardsDL

[Roll the Bones 74]

How can religion exist after Darwin? Is it bound to die?To my mind, for religionists of all stripe to maintain a faith in a creator God, we, yes we, I an a religionist, we have to throw out most of the science that we have worked hard for 2,000 to gain and learn.Scientists are putting up and not needing to shut up in all fields of study.Religionists are not putting up much of anything and yet we will not shut up. http://fora.tv/2009/11/17/Great_Issues_For...hat_Is_Religion

It seems to me that there are many issues coming to a head where non believers are getting quite peeved with religionists. Even as a religionist, I cannot blame them.More and more militant secular confrontations of religionists are in the offing as more and more of them get tires of being denigrated and told yhey are going to hell if they do not believe as believers do. I do not blame them as I have been told this quite often by those who do not like my personal beliefs in the Godhead.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/victor-steng...o_b_775163.htmlI recognize why religions exist. I can personally see some of the good that churches bring to community.http://www.canada.com/life/Religion+calms+...6785/story.htmlI do not like the way they teach of God though if it happens to be a literal reading or fundamental church.It is my view that all literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are Religionists.They all hurt their parent religions and everyone else who has a belief. They make all believers into laughing stocks and should rethink their position. There is a Godhead but not the God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution. Belief in fantasy and magic is evil.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HKHaClUCw4...&playnext=1They also do much harm to their own.African witches and Jesushttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlRG9gXriVI...feature=relatedJesus Camp 1of 9http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOqGhcwwE1sI do not look forward to a full secular system but if trends continue and I think they will, my grand children will not be able to believe as they wish because of the damage and ill will that believers are presently creating.People are getting brighter. Non believers that is.Not believers. Most seem to not know why they are in religion and I would think that they are there just for the sake of tradition. Traditions that swiftly are showing that they belong to an older time and are dying. http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2010/1...nownothing.htmlI believe that if religion is to stop backsliding, it must shed itself of literalists and fundamentals. Belief in magic and fantasy cannot survive in a world where minds are getting brighter. I D has had it’s day in court and until God steps into our time from His out of time position, according to many, then I fear that secularism will shortly win the war for the hearts and minds of the vast majority.What do you think. The numbers look bad. Most secular morals are starting to show how evil the morals of most Gods are. The number of new literature is coming out against religions and the historicity of Jesus and Moses with back up from Gnostics, Hebrew and Jewish writings and discoveries.Is there any way to reverse these trends without God actually making an appearance or is religion bound to continue to shrink and die?RegardsDL

If it's your view that fundementalist and literalists hurt religon, what exactly are you left with to believe? Do you think the bible was metaphorical? Really? God gave us his divine word and couldn't inspire someone to write better than 3rd rate fiction? It wasn't important enough to be straightforward? He purposefully left our ultimate guide up to opinion?

[Greatest I am 0]

If it's your view that fundementalist and literalists hurt religon, what exactly are you left with to believe? Do you think the bible was metaphorical? Really? God gave us his divine word and couldn't inspire someone to write better than 3rd rate fiction? It wasn't important enough to be straightforward? He purposefully left our ultimate guide up to opinion?

The beauty, depth and usefulness of myth. The way things were before Christianitie's and Islam's fatal error of literalizing and historisizing the archetypes in the Bible. A Bible based on Jewish and Hebrew scripture that they did not take literally and where quite surprised when stupid Christians began to believe them literally. That is why Constantine, when he bought the Church, killed Gnostic and burned their scriptures. The winner wrote the history.Ths guy is good.

RegardsDL

[SweetDee 0]

I find the belief in this to be more hilarious than maybe anything else in any religion, which is really saying something. The kind, caring, benevolent son of god is going send us all to BURN IN HELL TO BE TORTURED FOR ALL ETERNITY based on even relatively minor mistakes made in our extremely short and confusing lives on earth. The whole concept is so idiotic that it's nearly impossible for me to believe that, when pressed, anyone but the most brainwashed religious nutcase would actually keep claiming this to be anything but a scary story to keep kids from misbehaving.

The short part you nailed, but the confusing part I have to disagree with. Some people aren't confused at all.As far as idiotic, I wouldn't say that. If you buy into Creator- Creator wants X- Creator has bad X if you do X and Good X if you X, then it's pretty easy to see that the person who bought in would happily live his or her life based on that map with a endgame of getting to that better X. In my mind that's not idiocy at all, it's actually quite smart. Now, the idiots are the ones who don't really believe and just do it for the show, or because Dad wants it, or because Wife wants it, whatever. Might as well do as you please and not waste the little time you have.

[vbnautilus 48]

The short part you nailed, but the confusing part I have to disagree with. Some people aren't confused at all.

Like who?

As far as idiotic, I wouldn't say that. If you buy into Creator- Creator wants X- Creator has bad X if you do X and Good X if you X, then it's pretty easy to see that the person who bought in would happily live his or her life based on that map with a endgame of getting to that better X. In my mind that's not idiocy at all, it's actually quite smart. Now, the idiots are the ones who don't really believe and just do it for the show, or because Dad wants it, or because Wife wants it, whatever. Might as well do as you please and not waste the little time you have.

Hey, it's easy to see that if you buy into the world being created by a giant spaghetti monster then logically you should spend your days worshipping pasta, nothing idiotic about that at all.

[Balloon guy 158]

Like who? Hey, it's easy to see that if you buy into the world being created by a giant spaghetti monster then logically you should spend your days worshipping pasta, nothing idiotic about that at all.

We'll see who's idiotic when the great Cheese Grater of Judgment comes down on your insolent shoulders!I don't want to believe in God because I don't think a Being who creates the entire universe and is outside of Time/Space should act in a manner that I find unacceptable!If He refuses to accept my terms for existence, then I will just refuse to accept His punishments.What? I have zero choice in the matter and am subject to His laws??? Well, I'll be the better man by judging Him to standards I find acceptable, from my perspective, living on this tiny planet in this tiny continent in this infinitesimally small mind that has a whopping 22 years of experience...CAUSE I"M RIGHT!I'm sure hell will be a little cooler knowing that I was right, from my perspectiveThose FOOLS living in eternal bliss are such IDIOTS, accepting God's easy way of receiving His eternal forgiveness by asking for it.AND THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW DUMB THEY ARE HAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHHAAouch it's hot

[timwakefield 68]

Man in the sky rewards you for being good, punishes you for being bad, much like Santa. Unlike Santa however, your reward/punishment is not realized until after you die, so it is definitively impossible for a living person to have proof of this. Evidence, you say? Why it's all right here in this ancient book! What do you mean "allegorical?"

[speedz99 145]

The short part you nailed, but the confusing part I have to disagree with. Some people aren't confused at all.

Being agnostic, I think that anyone who isn't confused is kidding himself. I mean, come on, a two thousand year old book tells you about how the earth was created, what happens after we die, etc., and you actually believe it without an ounce of skepticism. That's fucking insane in any context, and it baffles me to think that some people can't see that. Hope it's true? Sure. KNOW it's true? Yikes.

As far as idiotic, I wouldn't say that. If you buy into Creator- Creator wants X- Creator has bad X if you do X and Good X if you X, then it's pretty easy to see that the person who bought in would happily live his or her life based on that map with a endgame of getting to that better X. In my mind that's not idiocy at all, it's actually quite smart. Now, the idiots are the ones who don't really believe and just do it for the show, or because Dad wants it, or because Wife wants it, whatever. Might as well do as you please and not waste the little time you have.

That's not at all the idiotic part I referred to. The idiocy comes with, well, I'll give an example. My buddy is Indian. His parents, who came to the US from India, are Hindu. My buddy was raised Hindu, and while he isn't fanatical about it, he at least respects his family's religion and culture in a very healthy way. He's a doctor, currently spending his honeymoon in Africa for the next month, volunteering at a hospital, trying to keep AIDS patients as comfortable as possible while they wait to die. He's one of the kindest people I've ever met, wouldn't hurt a fly, and blah blah, other great things about him. My point is that he's a better human being than 99.99% of the population.To bad he's going to BURN IN HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY, amirite?

[vbnautilus 48]

We'll see who's idiotic when the great Cheese Grater of Judgment comes down on your insolent shoulders!I don't want to believe in God because I don't think a Being who creates the entire universe and is outside of Time/Space should act in a manner that I find unacceptable!If He refuses to accept my terms for existence, then I will just refuse to accept His punishments.What? I have zero choice in the matter and am subject to His laws??? Well, I'll be the better man by judging Him to standards I find acceptable, from my perspective, living on this tiny planet in this tiny continent in this infinitesimally small mind that has a whopping 22 years of experience...CAUSE I"M RIGHT!I'm sure hell will be a little cooler knowing that I was right, from my perspectiveThose FOOLS living in eternal bliss are such IDIOTS, accepting God's easy way of receiving His eternal forgiveness by asking for it.AND THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW DUMB THEY ARE HAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHHAAouch it's hot

Yeah, he punishes the nonbelievers with fire and he punishes the believers with stupidity. Really has issues this god of yours.

[Balloon guy 158]

Yeah, he punishes the nonbelievers with fire and he punishes the believers with stupidity. Really has issues this god of yours.

You're just jealous that I'm stupider than you..I mean saved.

[Roll the Bones 74]

The beauty, depth and usefulness of myth. The way things were before Christianitie's and Islam's fatal error of literalizing and historisizing the archetypes in the Bible. A Bible based on Jewish and Hebrew scripture that they did not take literally and where quite surprised when stupid Christians began to believe them literally. That is why Constantine, when he bought the Church, killed Gnostic and burned their scriptures. The winner wrote the history.Ths guy is good.

RegardsDL

About every three months I respond to one of your posts just to remind myself what a collosal waste of time fucking time it is.

[SweetDee 0]

Like who? Hey, it's easy to see that if you buy into the world being created by a giant spaghetti monster then logically you should spend your days worshipping pasta, nothing idiotic about that at all.

I would imagine you argue against Love as well, being that it can't be seen, quantified or measured in any real way. Except it can be, and it's all individual. I pretty much think it's somewhere in that area where the answers lie, and those that know/have experienced already have it and those who don't and or can't, well, maybe someday they will. The spaghetti monster thing always makes me smile. It's just so silly, but that being said not once- and this is after attending God knows how many Church services at multiple factions of Religions, not once has anyone had the nerve to stand up during or after a service, ask questions, and make his or hers Spaghetti Monster points. Not once. This might be evidence of fear on some level (it can't be non-chalance, all of you obviously feel very strongly, which is admirable in it's own rite) but I think for the most part it's more along the lines of why you might not attend an Angelina Jolie movie, but you also don't attend the movie just so you can yell at the screen and throw feces at the patrons. What for? To each his own. Now, that being said, I did say for the most part, I also think a certain percentage of you fight so hard against the idea of a Christian God because if he is real you are screwed, and who wants that hanging over there head? So, you fight, and dig, and try and humiliate the opponent, discredit, find fault, etc., which is fine. It's just weird to me, I imagine that for the most part you non-believers would love a live and let live world, but by doing what you do in these threads, doing everything you can to literally derail someones life and belief system, possibly the only thing that keeps them sane, helps them get through, who knows, but by doing what you do you advocate the very opposite of a live and let live world. I mean, doesn't this make you at your very core kind of ****ed up?

[SweetDee 0]

Being agnostic, I think that anyone who isn't confused is kidding himself. I mean, come on, a two thousand year old book tells you about how the earth was created, what happens after we die, etc., and you actually believe it without an ounce of skepticism. That's fucking insane in any context, and it baffles me to think that some people can't see that. Hope it's true? Sure. KNOW it's true? Yikes.That's not at all the idiotic part I referred to. The idiocy comes with, well, I'll give an example. My buddy is Indian. His parents, who came to the US from India, are Hindu. My buddy was raised Hindu, and while he isn't fanatical about it, he at least respects his family's religion and culture in a very healthy way. He's a doctor, currently spending his honeymoon in Africa for the next month, volunteering at a hospital, trying to keep AIDS patients as comfortable as possible while they wait to die. He's one of the kindest people I've ever met, wouldn't hurt a fly, and blah blah, other great things about him. My point is that he's a better human being than 99.99% of the population.To bad he's going to BURN IN HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY, amirite?

Hope can be just as good an anchor as knowledge with the right heart and mind. I hear what you are saying about your friend, and quite honestly don't like it either. That being said, I also don't like that God isn't cool with a good many things, but I don't make the rules. I wish I did. Who doesn't? Truth be told, I would say that pretty much any Christian I have ever approached on that subject is very uncomfortable with the idea that really, statistically a lot of "good" people with end up burning for eternity. It's an awful thing to have to face and or think about, and I have personally seen many, many times where one has had to face it at a time when it's too late, a loved one has died, a dear friend, whatever, and they were not right with God. I think I told you guys about the Heroine overdose funeral, that was bad, but worse was watching a friend of mine just self-construct at the age of like 15 or so when his non-believer father died, he just lost it. Massive drug problem, just acting out against God, for probably at least 5 or so years, it was amazing he made it through alive. I remember years later he would tell me how he would just scream at God and tell him too **** off, if his Dad was in hell then that was where he wanted to be as well. The thing is, he knew it to be true. Knew it in his heart, knew he couldn't change it. The thing that I believed saved him was his mom, she got cancer and died in his mid 20's, but his Mom was as faithful and true-hearted a Christian as can be, completely different funeral, completely different experience, really one of the most awesome experiences in my life that funeral. To this day he is a faithful Christian, a preacher down in Georgia, faithful wife, 4 kids, a beautiful man. Dad in Hell, Mom in Paradise just waiting. I'm fairly certain that God allowed things to transpire in his life the way they did so he could come to be, I would even say that it's quite possible that God's very hand steered the whole thing and he took both of this mans parents just so he could one day have him as well. That's kind of a small picture of how the faithful Christians mind works, I know living through that time period not once when he would come up in conversation did anyone say they had no hope for him, they would talk about how we don't know Gods ultimate plan. We just don't, but what they do know is ultimately for THEM God has what is best for THEM in mind, and sometimes the only job they have is to just believe that. That's what I mean when I say no confusion. When it comes down to that most basic element, when you can muster at least that, what is there to be confused about?

[vbnautilus 48]

I would imagine you argue against Love as well, being that it can't be seen, quantified or measured in any real way

That's a terrible analogy. Love is an objectively verifiable condition. It can absolutely been seen, measured, and quantified.

doing everything you can to literally derail someones life and belief system

This is a very odd characterization of what goes on here. We discuss religion with other people that come here specifically to discuss it.

but by doing what you do you advocate the very opposite of a live and let live world.

People's beliefs have consequences. A bunch of guys flew a plane into a building because they believed allah compelled them to do so, but hey man, live and let live! Who are we to interfere with their religious beliefs?

[speedz99 145]

The spaghetti monster thing always makes me smile. It's just so silly, but that being said not once- and this is after attending God knows how many Church services at multiple factions of Religions, not once has anyone had the nerve to stand up during or after a service, ask questions, and make his or hers Spaghetti Monster points. Not once.

Why on earth would we do that? It'd be incredibly rude and uncalled for.

I also think a certain percentage of you fight so hard against the idea of a Christian God because if he is real you are screwed, and who wants that hanging over there head?

Not that fighting it would do any good.

So, you fight, and dig, and try and humiliate the opponent, discredit, find fault, etc., which is fine. It's just weird to me, I imagine that for the most part you non-believers would love a live and let live world, but by doing what you do in these threads, doing everything you can to literally derail someones life and belief system, possibly the only thing that keeps them sane, helps them get through, who knows, but by doing what you do you advocate the very opposite of a live and let live world. I mean, doesn't this make you at your very core kind of ****ed up?

I don't go around to christianity forums trying to be an asshole...I came to this forum initially to talk poker, stuck around because it's a good time, and sometimes venture over here to talk (ok, argue) about religion. A poker forum is neutral ground, so you should have no more of an expectation of immunity from people questioning your beliefs than anyone else, muslim, hindu, atheist, etc. And before you say that you don't offend people of other religions so shouldn't expect to be pushed about your own, that's completely incorrect when you (by "you" I mean any christian around here) talk about stuff like people who will be going to BURN FOR ALL ETERNITY for not believing in what you believe in. Of course we'll press you on that belief, as we'll press you on anything easily refuted by basic science (hi, BG!).

I hear what you are saying about your friend, and quite honestly don't like it either. That being said, I also don't like that God isn't cool with a good many things, but I don't make the rules. I wish I did. Who doesn't? Truth be told, I would say that pretty much any Christian I have ever approached on that subject is very uncomfortable with the idea that really, statistically a lot of "good" people with end up burning for eternity.

And do you guys really think about what burning for eternity means? Like, really think about it? Really, really think about what that would entail, and then continue to be big fans of your god that would sentence good people to that? Shit, the only reason to worship a god like that would be out of pure fear. Which is exactly what the writers of the bible were hoping for. I know you try to justify it with "we can't understand how he works", but that's a bullshit cop out, in my opinion.

That's kind of a small picture of how the faithful Christians mind works, I know living through that time period not once when he would come up in conversation did anyone say they had no hope for him, they would talk about how we don't know Gods ultimate plan. We just don't, but what they do know is ultimately for THEM God has what is best for THEM in mind, and sometimes the only job they have is to just believe that. That's what I mean when I say no confusion. When it comes down to that most basic element, when you can muster at least that, what is there to be confused about?

I completely understand why it would be comforting to believe that. I also understand why it would be comforting to believe any religious stuff, actually. And I occasionally wish that I was capable of doing it myself.

[SweetDee 0]

Why on earth would we do that? It'd be incredibly rude and uncalled for. Not that fighting it would do any good.I don't go around to christianity forums trying to be an asshole...I came to this forum initially to talk poker, stuck around because it's a good time, and sometimes venture over here to talk (ok, argue) about religion. A poker forum is neutral ground, so you should have no more of an expectation of immunity from people questioning your beliefs than anyone else, muslim, hindu, atheist, etc. And before you say that you don't offend people of other religions so shouldn't expect to be pushed about your own, that's completely incorrect when you (by "you" I mean any christian around here) talk about stuff like people who will be going to BURN FOR ALL ETERNITY for not believing in what you believe in. Of course we'll press you on that belief, as we'll press you on anything easily refuted by basic science (hi, BG!).And do you guys really think about what burning for eternity means? Like, really think about it? Really, really think about what that would entail, and then continue to be big fans of your god that would sentence good people to that? Shit, the only reason to worship a god like that would be out of pure fear. Which is exactly what the writers of the bible were hoping for. I know you try to justify it with "we can't understand how he works", but that's a bullshit cop out, in my opinion. I completely understand why it would be comforting to believe that. I also understand why it would be comforting to believe any religious stuff, actually. And I occasionally wish that I was capable of doing it myself.

I think you may have missed where I was coming from, which is if you guys hate it, or truly believe that it's a complete fallacy, then why even bother? I like the discourse personally, but that being said I don't have any accounts at atheist sites. It would be a pure waste of time.As far as the "really think about what that means" I would say yes, they think about what it means, as a whole. You keep saying "good" people, which is completely subjective. Can you imagine a being whos definition of good differs from yours?As far as the guy who made the comparison to 9/11 I would say this- right now, millions of children are not being molested. It's true. It's happening everyday, these kids just going to school, playing the flute, etc. No molesting. In fact, this non-molesting of children happens everyday. When's the last time you heard anyone talk about it?

[vbnautilus 48]

I think you may have missed where I was coming from, which is if you guys hate it, or truly believe that it's a complete fallacy, then why even bother? I like the discourse personally, but that being said I don't have any accounts at atheist sites. It would be a pure waste of time.

Because the fact that everyone believes this affects us. Are you saying that your religious belief is of no consequence to the world?

As far as the guy who made the comparison to 9/11 I would say this- right now, millions of children are not being molested. It's true. It's happening everyday, these kids just going to school, playing the flute, etc. No molesting. In fact, this non-molesting of children happens everyday. When's the last time you heard anyone talk about it?

What? Whhhaaaat?edit: the only explanation for this paragraph I have come up with is that you think the "lack of molestation" is somehow akin to the nonexistance of god and we should therefore be equally unconcerned about it. Obviously this is ridiculous and the comparison would only make sense if a large portion of the population believed there was molestation happening when there wasn't. If that were the case of course we would have a significant problem on our hands, don't you think? In other words, we are absolutely unconcerned with some entity that does not exist. We are concerned with the strange fact that much of our populace believes such a creature does exist, and attempts to arrange our schools, laws, and customs based on this illusion.

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

What? Whhhaaaat?

I just assumed I hadn't read carefully enough, but I really didn't want to go back and read any of that again.

[speedz99 145]

I think you may have missed where I was coming from, which is if you guys hate it, or truly believe that it's a complete fallacy, then why even bother? I like the discourse personally, but that being said I don't have any accounts at atheist sites. It would be a pure waste of time.

Right, that's why you don't sign up at atheist sites and I don't sign up at christian sites. But we're both signed up at a poker site, talking in the "religion" forum, which is why people are making you defend your positions. So...you know...I don't see why us being here talking about our opinions is any difference than you being here talking about yours.

As far as the "really think about what that means" I would say yes, they think about what it means, as a whole. You keep saying "good" people, which is completely subjective. Can you imagine a being whos definition of good differs from yours?

I gave my example of a good person, there's really no need to go beyond that. If my buddy doesn't make it into your version of heaven, there's a glitch in the system, and it doesn't matter if one or one billion people fall into that glitch. Yes, I can imagine a being whose definition of good differs from mine. That doesn't mean I'm going to worship him when he sends my buddy to BURN FOR ETERNITY. Sorry man, but your "maybe god thinks differently from us" argument is grounded in...well, nothing. Maybe the Flying Spaghetti Monster sends all people that love to dance to BURN FOR ETERNITY, and I say good for him, as I also tend to dislike people that love to dance a little too much.

As far as the guy who made the comparison to 9/11 I would say this- right now, millions of children are not being molested. It's true. It's happening everyday, these kids just going to school, playing the flute, etc. No molesting. In fact, this non-molesting of children happens everyday. When's the last time you heard anyone talk about it?

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