Jump to content


Poker...Gambling?


  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 Jamestl

Jamestl

    Poker Forum Newbie

  • Members
  • 33 posts
  • Location:Phoenix
  • Interests:POKER and GTA

Posted 16 December 2004 - 04:46 PM

Just interested in whether or not you guys consider poker gambling, a sport, or both?
Daniel's self appointed son

#2 tekn0wledg

tekn0wledg

    Poker Forum Groupie

  • Members
  • 940 posts
  • Location:Virginia
  • Interests:Golf, Video Games, Statistics

Posted 16 December 2004 - 05:15 PM

Poker is not gambling IMHO.... to me I play poker because it's an investment. One for the obvious monetary reason and secondly because it's an investment in entertainment and competition.Monetarily speaking successful players are making an investment into something that will give them a positive ROI.As for the entertainment/competition factor, since I stopped playing comeptitive sports that missing piece is fullfilled with poker and playing and losing on any given day is far greater to me than not playing and quenching my competitive nature. Also if you like to be frugal, you could spend alot more money on alot less fun.... Poker wins :D

#3 CardKillah

CardKillah

    Poker Forum Newbie

  • Members
  • 38 posts

Posted 16 December 2004 - 07:03 PM

I think Poker is considered gambling. Would you consider blackjack gambling? You can have a good edge in blackjack as well. The obvious difference, being, the edge can be greater since you're not playing against the house. However, you are playing against math, and statistics. Each hand, and each ranking have some sort of +EV, or -EV. A hand like, AA, are statistically going to win money in the long run. A hand like, 72os, will not. I consider poker gambling, but, with a specific edge, where it's possible to beat the game.
"I'm up in Vegas, with a stack of black chips. Breakin' the whole casino, and doin' backflips."

#4 tekn0wledg

tekn0wledg

    Poker Forum Groupie

  • Members
  • 940 posts
  • Location:Virginia
  • Interests:Golf, Video Games, Statistics

Posted 16 December 2004 - 07:10 PM

I don't think that it's as specific as the hands themselves. Any good poker player can consistently play 72o and make it into a profitable hand....I think what it boils down to is that poker is a game based on betting when you believe that you have the best hand, or when you think you can move someone else off of theirs. Thus, you are betting in skill instead of numerical randomness.

#5 Jamestl

Jamestl

    Poker Forum Newbie

  • Members
  • 33 posts
  • Location:Phoenix
  • Interests:POKER and GTA

Posted 17 December 2004 - 10:51 AM

what about a sport? And if it is such a game of skill how come no one is taking action to separate it from gambling in the eyes of the law?
Daniel's self appointed son

#6 Boothy

Boothy

    Poker Forum Regular

  • Members
  • 174 posts
  • Location:Bolton, Lancs, UK
  • Interests:Cricket

Posted 17 December 2004 - 02:52 PM

The only time any hand of poker isn't a gamble is when you're tossing your chips in with the absolute nuts.So yes, it is gambling but the risks of losing are vastly reduced by knowledge, experience & skill. I wouldn't class it along with Roulet, bingo, slots, the lottery or the like that are games of pure chance.Is it a sport? I would say no, it's a game like Pool, Snooker, darts, chess. While it can be phisically and mentally draining, sitting down for hours at a time can't, imho, be called sport. :D
Gotta Go
Paul

#7 tekn0wledg

tekn0wledg

    Poker Forum Groupie

  • Members
  • 940 posts
  • Location:Virginia
  • Interests:Golf, Video Games, Statistics

Posted 17 December 2004 - 02:56 PM

Jamestl said:

what about a sport? And if it is such a game of skill how come no one is taking action to separate it from gambling in the eyes of the law?
This is because money is still wagered at the table on a deck of cards. The people who don't understand the skill required to play consistently and have a positive expectation see it as only a deck of cards that are completely random and dealt to people and they bet. Thus to them it appears like a crapshoot.Plus there is alot of negative connotation with any type of gambling from the early days in the United States particularly when river boat gambling and poker first took off. To this day it still carries with it a negative outlook by most people and for that reason poker is still considered gambling by most.But that is just my opinion. 99% of you could think it's gambling, but me personally, I don't. I hate to lose money and don't like losing $20 at a roulette table, which is gambling. I prefer to put my money into things in which I can take control of. Granted when the cards run sour and you are on a bad streak or on titl you are playing foolishly, but that is still your own fault and can and should be corrected.Let's look at another aspect of the world that could be considered gambling, yet in still millions of people trust their money in it everyday. The stock market! This is definitely gambling! This is no different than a horse race wherein you are putting your money into something that you think has the potential to increase in value [like winning a horse race]. Thus it is gambling because you yourself, or your broker, do not have the capacity to change the results of the outcome of your money, whereas poker you do.

#8 Wilderness

Wilderness

    Poker Forum Groupie

  • Members
  • 598 posts
  • Location:Washington DC

Posted 18 December 2004 - 05:41 AM

tekn0wledg said:

But that is just my opinion. 99% of you could think it's gambling, but me personally, I don't. I hate to lose money and don't like losing $20 at a roulette table, which is gambling. I prefer to put my money into things in which I can take control of. Granted when the cards run sour and you are on a bad streak or on titl you are playing foolishly, but that is still your own fault and can and should be corrected.Let's look at another aspect of the world that could be considered gambling, yet in still millions of people trust their money in it everyday. The stock market! This is definitely gambling! This is no different than a horse race wherein you are putting your money into something that you think has the potential to increase in value [like winning a horse race]. Thus it is gambling because you yourself, or your broker, do not have the capacity to change the results of the outcome of your money, whereas poker you do.
I think that it is gambling, although its obviously not the same thing as playing roulette or a game where its all chance. As you mentioned, you can change the results of your money, which is where skill comes in. You can be very skilled at poker and do very well at it (like that POY guy ... what was his name again? :D) but in the end your results will also be affected by what cards are dealt to you, your opponent, and to the middle so there is always a gamble as well. I don't think that saying that its gambling means that its a crapshoot and that there is no skill involved, it is just admitting that there is also a factor that no player has no control over (the cards).
Jason

#9 Incubus77546

Incubus77546

    Form Of An Ice Menorah!

  • Members
  • 1,312 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Houston, TX
  • Favorite Poker Game:Omaha Hi/Lo

Posted 18 December 2004 - 06:47 AM

Boothy said:

Is it a sport? I would say no, it's a game like Pool, Snooker, darts, chess. While it can be phisically and mentally draining, sitting down for hours at a time can't, imho, be called sport. :D
Some people consider Pool a sport... and Im sure Gus Hansen would say Snooker is one too! :? I think Poker is both a sport with gambling combined.

#10 Eclypse

Eclypse

    Poker Forum Nut

  • Members
  • 403 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California
  • Interests:Poker, Books, Photography, Art, Travel, Cats, Cartoons, Hiking, Hot-Air Ballooning
  • Favorite Poker Game:Omaha H/L

Posted 18 December 2004 - 07:10 AM

Football, basketball, baseball, chess, backgammon and poker are games of skill.Football, basketball and baseball are games of skill with the major element being a test of physical ability and are sports.Poker and backgammon are games of skill involving a major element of chance and are gambling.Chess is a game of pure skill and is not gambling.
Rearranging the furniture in order to give you the full effect of the anesthetic.

#11 Boothy

Boothy

    Poker Forum Regular

  • Members
  • 174 posts
  • Location:Bolton, Lancs, UK
  • Interests:Cricket

Posted 18 December 2004 - 07:21 AM

Eclypse said:

Chess is a game of pure skill and is not gambling.
Unless the loser buys the pizza :wink:
Gotta Go
Paul

#12 rkard

rkard

    Poker Forum Nut

  • Members
  • 301 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dublin, Ireland.

Posted 18 December 2004 - 04:19 PM

Basketball is a sport, a basketball is round. A chip is round (unless it's a crazy euro one!). They're competitive, and so the similarities end...Of course, skill is the bigger element but there's too much luck and chance involved for me to call it a sport.Come on, are you going to say that you're a sportsman and not a poker player?SO YOU PLAY SPORTS EH? WHAT SPORTS?Poker.What!?Poker is poker. It's great. It's not a sport but it's way better than most sports. "Some people consider Pool a sport... and Im sure Gus Hansen would say Snooker is one too!"Snooker is considered a sport in europe. Hell, they even show it on Eurosport tv channel, and I don't see poker there. It's a game of tremendous skill and control and you're not acting on uncomplete information. A full snooker game takes more skill than a pool game. You won't get any lucky pots cause the balls and pockets are so small and the table is huge.You want poker as a sport? Make everyone sit on exercise bikes, staying in requires constant movement and replace the chips with tiny little balls which you have to throw into a basket at the centre of the table to make a successful bet/call. It would most likely suck but would be mildly amusing to see the current wsop champ "bust out" in the first few hands..
"with a decent iron pipe you smack the whole world into awe."
Poker tard and semi-pro fighter.

#13 Boothy

Boothy

    Poker Forum Regular

  • Members
  • 174 posts
  • Location:Bolton, Lancs, UK
  • Interests:Cricket

Posted 19 December 2004 - 03:27 AM

rkard said:

Snooker is considered a sport in europe. Hell, they even show it on Eurosport tv channel, and I don't see poker there.
Hmm. If being shown on a sports channel signifies whether something is a sport or not, then I lose my argument. WSOP shown on ESPN and Ladbrokes Poker Million & the Paddy Power tourney shown on SKY Sports.
Gotta Go
Paul

#14 rkard

rkard

    Poker Forum Nut

  • Members
  • 301 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dublin, Ireland.

Posted 19 December 2004 - 04:38 AM

That wasn't the point. It was a reply to someone who didn't believe snooker was a sport. I've got to say that snooker is more of a sport than poker will ever be. Poker is a game of it's own class and should have a Poker TV channel covering everything poker. It's that great.
"with a decent iron pipe you smack the whole world into awe."
Poker tard and semi-pro fighter.

#15 Boothy

Boothy

    Poker Forum Regular

  • Members
  • 174 posts
  • Location:Bolton, Lancs, UK
  • Interests:Cricket

Posted 19 December 2004 - 01:04 PM

Yeah, I could go along with a poker channel. The only regular source of poker at the mo is on Challenge TV but they're just showing :wpt: repeats.They did have Daniels final table on the cruise on Friday night though. It was nice to watch him while he was battling to reach another final table.
Gotta Go
Paul

#16 HMartin5000

HMartin5000

    Poker Forum Newbie

  • Members
  • 8 posts
  • Location:Corvallis, Oregon
  • Interests:poker, duh

Posted 25 December 2004 - 06:44 AM

Well, since this is my first post, take it with a grain of salt or a mountain of salt...To me, I feel that poker is a game, but with clear differences from most games. The simple fact that money is involved only means that more people than some would believe that it is a gambling game, and that is true to a point. The point in question is indeed quite clear... poker, whether it is Hold 'Em, Stud, Draw, or what have you, is a game of exploitations and the skill to read those moments. Of course, poker itself is very much more indepth, but I think that it becomes more game than gamble when you introduce the ability to bluff-steal, raise, and so on. I feel that poker is 80 percent game, and 20 percent gamble, with respect to blinds and antes and any other forced bet. Of course, the "worse" player you are, the bigger the gamble, or "loss" for a better word. But I expect that most players that read these posts are better than the average bear, and would view my comments as hopefully agreeable.With regards to poker being a sport, I feel that it is not. And I feel this way simply because I view sports (football, golf, skiing, etc.) as an ATHLETIC competition, involving ATHLETES. Poker is a competition, no question, and the mind plays a big role in the outcome of the game, along with chance, mathematics, and so on. But poker is a game people, a game of skill and chance... but this is just my opinion, I hope some would agree.

#17 Munky

Munky

    Poker Forum Regular

  • Members
  • 180 posts
  • Interests:Poker & Building Poker Tables

Posted 25 December 2004 - 12:35 PM

gam·ble ( P ) Pronunciation Key (gmbl)v. gam·bled, gam·bling, gam·bles v. intr.To bet on an uncertain outcome, as of a contest. To play a game of chance for stakes. I honestly think Poker is both gambling and a sport. Pushing in with a good draw, is gambling. Knowing your opponent has junk and is betting into your made hand, that requires skill. It's a sport that you can gamble with... if that makes any sense...
:spades10: :spadesj: :spadesq: :spadesk: :hearts10:

I can't do anything right...

#18 SwedishPro

SwedishPro

    Poker Forum Newbie

  • Members
  • 24 posts
  • Location:Stockholm, Sweden
  • Interests:Poker, Movies, Muisc

Posted 26 December 2004 - 08:12 PM

Poker is gambling and sport. You can play it so right and end up so wrong (=gambling). But of curse, in the long run the better player win.Pool is a SPORT (no sh*t!), its pure skill. Its no luck in pool - only fysic.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users