Kk, River Value?

[Snamuh 0]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)SB ($22.65)BB ($45.55)UTG ($50)UTG+1 ($92)MP1 ($26.30)MP2 ($53.45)Hero ($50)Button ($68.95)Preflop: Hero is CO with K, K. 4 folds, Hero raises to $2, 2 folds, BB calls $1.50.Flop: ($4.25) 3, 5, Q(2 players)BB checks, Hero bets $3.25, BB raises to $7, Hero calls $3.75.Turn: ($18.25) 4(2 players)BB bets $10.5, Hero calls $10.50.River: ($39.25) 8(2 players)BB checks, Hero?I had just sat down at the table. Villain is unknown. Villain has 26.05 left after the turn bet. The flop C/R and the turn lead smelled strongly of a set but the river check showed a lot of weakness - possibly a hand like KQ or AQ. What river action should I take? Check behind (my least favorite option)? Value for around 15? Put him all-in for his remaining 26.05?

[GaYeled 0]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)SB ($22.65)BB ($45.55)UTG ($50)UTG+1 ($92)MP1 ($26.30)MP2 ($53.45)Hero ($50)Button ($68.95)Preflop: Hero is CO with K, K. 4 folds, Hero raises to $2, 2 folds, BB calls $1.50.Flop: ($4.25) 3, 5, Q(2 players)BB checks, Hero bets $3.25, BB raises to $7, Hero calls $3.75.Turn: ($18.25) 4(2 players)BB bets $10.5, Hero calls $10.50.River: ($39.25) 8(2 players)BB checks, Hero?I had just sat down at the table. Villain is unknown. Villain has 26.05 left after the turn bet. The flop C/R and the turn lead smelled strongly of a set but the river check showed a lot of weakness - possibly a hand like KQ or AQ. What river action should I take? Check behind (my least favorite option)? Value for around 15? Put him all-in for his remaining 26.05?

all innnnn...represent a busted flush draw...or if u represent a busted flush draw by not betting all but by betting a different amount, then bet that amount. Pretend you have a busted flush draw and think in terms of what is the best play then.

[Acid_Knight 2]

All in. The bet will rep about 2/3 of the pot which is a reasonable bet regardless of his stack size. He probably has a missed draw, but just in case he has a hand to call you with, this is far and away the best bet that you can throw out there I think.

[rgold79 0]

I feel like with a push on the river we get stacked more often than we get called by a hand we beat. My inclination is to bet an amount that gives him a good price to call with nothing but a Q and a good kicker. I feel like here we get more value over the long run betting an amount we know he can call with a worse hand rather than risking our whole stack with just an overpair in a situation where most of the calls we do get beat us.

[Acid_Knight 2]

I feel like with a push on the river we get stacked more often than we get called by a hand we beat. My inclination is to bet an amount that gives him a good price to call with nothing but a Q and a good kicker. I feel like here we get more value over the long run betting an amount we know he can call with a worse hand rather than risking our whole stack with just an overpair in a situation where most of the calls we do get beat us.

If we bet anything other than all-in here, it's an incredibly weak bet. If he has a hand of any kind, he's probably calling our push. If we're beaten, it doesn't really matter becuase he has so little money left. If he checked a hand that beats ours here, good for him becuase I"m pushing everytime to make up for the other times when he calls me with QJ.

[Royal_Tour 0]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)SB ($22.65)BB ($45.55)UTG ($50)UTG+1 ($92)MP1 ($26.30)MP2 ($53.45)Hero ($50)Button ($68.95)Preflop: Hero is CO with K, K. 4 folds, Hero raises to $2, 2 folds, BB calls $1.50.Flop: ($4.25) 3, 5, Q(2 players)BB checks, Hero bets $3.25, BB raises to $7, Hero calls $3.75.Turn: ($18.25) 4(2 players)BB bets $10.5, Hero calls $10.50.River: ($39.25) 8(2 players)BB checks, Hero?I had just sat down at the table. Villain is unknown. Villain has 26.05 left after the turn bet. The flop C/R and the turn lead smelled strongly of a set but the river check showed a lot of weakness - possibly a hand like KQ or AQ. What river action should I take? Check behind (my least favorite option)? Value for around 15? Put him all-in for his remaining 26.05?

$40 pot in a .50 game is nice. Do we lose value by checking?lets see, BB calls the 1.50 more. i already dont think he has a great hand. i mean, lots of people make loose calls at this level.you only raised 4x.he now check/raises your flop lead. min raises mind you. Often i put this on a weak Top pair. probably looking for any info. which he gets, since you smooth called.he probably thinks you're weak.A draw here is possible, he might be semi-bluffing this hand / adding value if he hits. although the Top card on this board is 1 of the flush cards. so does he hold J,10 suited maybe? K,Js?Or is this a weak Q?he then leads the turn. just over half the pot. pretty weak after a check/raise. I think, he thnks he will by this pot rigt here. which to me, means he doesnt have a Q. I'm leaning more towards a draw.you then call the bet. obviously you have a hand. AQ, KQ.. etc... I dont think he puts you on KK/AAriver blanks.if he missed his flush he folds. If he spiked a set, he's praying on you to bet this, which is horrible since you havent shown much agression. Its possible he hit a set of 8's got excited and is hoping to trap. but i doubt it.Its also possible he check/call with a weak Q here. but for some reason I dont think its that either. I think this is a missed flush, or a slight possibility of a weak QSo, can you extract value? i doubt it. i dont think his hand is strong enough to invest the rest of his stack. if he was aggro, he mgt have shoveld the blank river on a busted draw.But, i'm leaning towards him folding to any betThe bet only conceals your hand now, U'll win uncontested and not show your kings.so to answer the question. Yes, i do push

[dms26 3]

I feel like with a push on the river we get stacked more often than we get called by a hand we beat. My inclination is to bet an amount that gives him a good price to call with nothing but a Q and a good kicker. I feel like here we get more value over the long run betting an amount we know he can call with a worse hand rather than risking our whole stack with just an overpair in a situation where most of the calls we do get beat us.

A shove makes it look like a busted hand, and betting half the pot is 80% of villians stack. If he's going to call a $15-$20 bet he'll call an all in, and he'll call with a lot of hands we beat. If he has a set why would he check on the river unless he thinks we may bet a busted flush draw? That's really the only reason I can think for him to check with a hand we can't beat. He's not going to have 2 pair or a straight very often, so we're really only losing to a set.

[Snamuh 0]

$40 pot in a .50 game is nice. Do we lose value by checking?lets see, BB calls the 1.50 more. i already dont think he has a great hand. i mean, lots of people make loose calls at this level.you only raised 4x.he now check/raises your flop lead. min raises mind you. Often i put this on a weak Top pair. probably looking for any info. which he gets, since you smooth called.he probably thinks you're weak.A draw here is possible, he might be semi-bluffing this hand / adding value if he hits. although the Top card on this board is 1 of the flush cards. so does he hold J,10 suited maybe? K,Js?Or is this a weak Q?he then leads the turn. just over half the pot. pretty weak after a check/raise. I think, he thnks he will by this pot rigt here. which to me, means he doesnt have a Q. I'm leaning more towards a draw.you then call the bet. obviously you have a hand. AQ, KQ.. etc... I dont think he puts you on KK/AAriver blanks.if he missed his flush he folds. If he spiked a set, he's praying on you to bet this, which is horrible since you havent shown much agression. Its possible he hit a set of 8's got excited and is hoping to trap. but i doubt it.Its also possible he check/call with a weak Q here. but for some reason I dont think its that either. I think this is a missed flush, or a slight possibility of a weak QSo, can you extract value? i doubt it. i dont think his hand is strong enough to invest the rest of his stack. if he was aggro, he mgt have shoveld the blank river on a busted draw.But, i'm leaning towards him folding to any betThe bet only conceals your hand now, U'll win uncontested and not show your kings.so to answer the question. Yes, i do push

Min-raise is as often a set as it is top pair. I also don't think the turn lead necessarily indicates weakness at all.

[Royal_Tour 0]

Min-raise is as often a set as it is top pair. I also don't think the turn lead necessarily indicates weakness at all.

I'm not sure why you feel this way, but on this board, if villain is going to raise a set, he is going to make it more than the min.If you think a check/min-raise cries set why bother calling?because its not always a set.... rigt? and yes his turn is weak. for a set, he is giving a FD pretty good odds to call here almost 3:1and then a check on the river when a brick hits, well that just seals the deal that its not a set.You gotta remeber, we arent at the table.i can only imagine what happend. You checked behind and he had a set.so now u want to find out if anyone else could tell he had a set, and wether or not they would lose more money by betting?

[Snamuh 0]

I'm not sure why you feel this way, but on this board, if villain is going to raise a set, he is going to make it more than the min.If you think a check/min-raise cries set why bother calling?because its not always a set.... rigt? and yes his turn is weak. for a set, he is giving a FD pretty good odds to call here almost 3:1and then a check on the river when a brick hits, well that just seals the deal that its not a set.You gotta remeber, we arent at the table.i can only imagine what happend. You checked behind and he had a set.so now u want to find out if anyone else could tell he had a set, and wether or not they would lose more money by betting?

Actually I put him all-in and he folded. Way to make false assumptions in order to belittle me. I was simply trying to figure out how to extract maximum value.

[Scott3705 0]

I think you're against a range where a bet's in order here. I really can't see a set or two pair slowing up like this on the river, considering that you appear to be in check/call mode and seem likely to check behind here. I would imagine you're up against AQ kQ or a broken flush draw which makes this a bet. His stack is short enough that he's probably going to feel obligated to call with AQ here if you push. I don't think the bet size matters by the river, he's either calling or he's not.

[Royal_Tour 0]

Actually I put him all-in and he folded. Way to make false assumptions in order to belittle me. I was simply trying to figure out how to extract maximum value.

Belittle you??LOLI told you exactly what i thought, and you said "No way, this is set more times than not"well obviously Not. so why do you ask for help and comments if you can take everyones into account

[Snamuh 0]

Belittle you??LOLI told you exactly what i thought, and you said "No way, this is set more times than not"well obviously Not. so why do you ask for help and comments if you can take everyones into account

I never said "No way" at all. I also said I think it's a set "as often," not "more often than not." I do take in everyone's account.Your entire response seemed a bit aggressive in general. I don't understand the purpose of saying "i can only imagine what happend. You checked behind and he had a set.so now u want to find out if anyone else could tell he had a set, and wether or not they would lose more money by betting?" Seems like you were just trying to be an ******* when you wrote that.

[Royal_Tour 0]

I never said "No way" at all. I also said I think it's a set "as often," not "more often than not." I do take in everyone's account.Your entire response seemed a bit aggressive in general. I don't understand the purpose of saying "i can only imagine what happend. You checked behind and he had a set.so now u want to find out if anyone else could tell he had a set, and wether or not they would lose more money by betting?" Seems like you were just trying to be an ******* when you wrote that.

i was being an *******, because your response to my original post seemed a bit like I have no idea what i'm talking about.If you question anything in the post, or you have factual info to backup an opposing point on why i'm way off, than i would be more inclined to go further in depth on this hand. and try and find my own leaks, and where i went wrong.but to just say. "This is a set as often, etc etc... and the turn raise isnt weak" well i dont know how to take that? so basically everything i wrote is wrong, but you don't want to clear up the reasons on why i'm wrong?If you said. no no, 1/2 the pot on the turn means strength because he has done this same move 3 times in the past session with the nuts. than ok.but you have no added info.you see why i might be a little "on tilt" to your 1 line reply. after all, we're all here to help each other develop different views and plans of attack

[Snamuh 0]

i was being an *******, because your response to my original post seemed a bit like I have no idea what i'm talking about.

If you take a one line opinion as me claiming you have no idea what you're talking about, I have no idea what to say. This is a thread for everyone to express their opinions on the hand and I was further expressing mine.