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$1k Wsop Event


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#41 babylondonks

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 03:19 PM

and we also let hands like AK continue to bluff

#42 cdipierr

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 09:07 PM

View Posthartman72, on Saturday, July 24th, 2010, 2:30 PM, said:

I just like to be consistent. If I play a hand passively preflop, I'm going to play it passively after the flop unless I flop the nuts. A raise on the flop will probably get hands like AJ and 10 10 to fold. QQ will stay in, but that's about it. AA, JJ however, will reraise, so raising the flop is almost a no win situation unless villain has QQ.By calling, we can let AJ and QQ keep firing drawing almost dead and we may not lose as much. (ALthough I'm still stacking off here)
In this tournament, AJ is never folding to a flop raise, and is probably shoving on us.

#43 cashman

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 06:23 AM

View Postbabylondonks, on Saturday, July 24th, 2010, 3:19 PM, said:

and we also let hands like AK continue to bluff
So are you defending me somewhat that the raise actually did have some merit?

#44 TrueAce13

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 07:21 AM

View Postcashman, on Sunday, July 25th, 2010, 6:23 AM, said:

So are you defending me somewhat that the raise actually did have some merit?
No. What he is saying is not to raise, that we can flat this cbet and let worse hands continue to bluff
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#45 RakeMyBlind

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 08:02 AM

View Postcashman, on Saturday, July 24th, 2010, 3:30 PM, said:

I was about to raise when I figured, hes made a huge preflop bet, if I shove he is probably going to insta call.
I'm definitely no expert, but isn't this what you want with KK? If villain would have showed you QQ what would you be thinking right now? I'm sure this discussion would have never been started if that would have been the case.

#46 mle711

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 12:12 PM

View PostTrueAce13, on Sunday, July 25th, 2010, 8:21 AM, said:

No. What he is saying is not to raise, that we can flat this cbet and let worse hands continue to bluff
so the optimal play is to smooth call all the way and then jam on the river? don't we want to try and get some information at some point?

#47 TrueAce13

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 01:00 PM

View Postmle711, on Sunday, July 25th, 2010, 12:12 PM, said:

so the optimal play is to smooth call all the way and then jam on the river? don't we want to try and get some information at some point?
optimal play is to get it in pre flop. But since we are here, and we have KK, we can flat and hope he barrels
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#48 Tehtoe

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 01:59 PM

ugbhhuodfsvliaafs information information information HUAD

#49 Kennydawgg

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 05:28 PM

I also want to add that 60 minute blinds are very similar to a 20 minute blind structure online. as live hands per hour are 35-50 and online is 100-120+again revisiting the 10x preflop raise, how did that compare to his other raises? you cant assume aces just because its 10x if he always raises 10x then this could be a range of hands. . . But I think this is obvious to most players. .

#50 FARGOpokerND

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 12:38 AM

Cashman, I am seeing some poor logic in your posts in this thread. Lets start by preflop. They guy raises 9x to 225. Personally, I don't mind flatting...the guy obv is either 1. in love with his hand and won't fold or 2. scared with his hand and just wants to take it down now (Hands like 88-TT and AK). Flatting allows you to underrep your hand and get players to spazz out with hands like TT QQ AK on raggy-ish flops (like your flop), whereas raising looks so scary, it is possible he would fold hands like TT-JJ and AK. The important thing is the spazz part. It allows him to feel comfortable with a flop and stick it in with TT on an 853 flop or bluff with AK a few times. There is obviously merit to 3betting too, as the WSOP 1k structure IS fast when you get into the 3rd-5th levels...so accumulating chips early is VERY important. By flatting preflop you can raise a flop and get hands to shove into you more often than not...live tell or not. You should never EVER EVER EVER EVER be raise/folding that flop. Yeah, once he shoves you might get the tell he has AA, but you should never be getting yourself in that spot in the first place. As they have all said, by raise/folding you are turning your hand into a bluff if you plan on folding to a shove. You shouldn't EVER be raising the flop, then looking for a tell to decide if you want to call if he shoves...especially since they are not totally reliable. You raise with the intent on calling a shove since as I said, your hand is massively underrepped. -LIVE PRO (right ryan?!)

#51 cashman

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 04:25 AM

View PostFARGOpokerND, on Thursday, July 29th, 2010, 12:38 AM, said:

Cashman, I am seeing some poor logic in your posts in this thread. Lets start by preflop. They guy raises 9x to 225. Personally, I don't mind flatting...the guy obv is either 1. in love with his hand and won't fold or 2. scared with his hand and just wants to take it down now (Hands like 88-TT and AK). Flatting allows you to underrep your hand and get players to spazz out with hands like TT QQ AK on raggy-ish flops (like your flop), whereas raising looks so scary, it is possible he would fold hands like TT-JJ and AK. The important thing is the spazz part. It allows him to feel comfortable with a flop and stick it in with TT on an 853 flop or bluff with AK a few times. There is obviously merit to 3betting too, as the WSOP 1k structure IS fast when you get into the 3rd-5th levels...so accumulating chips early is VERY important. By flatting preflop you can raise a flop and get hands to shove into you more often than not...live tell or not. You should never EVER EVER EVER EVER be raise/folding that flop. Yeah, once he shoves you might get the tell he has AA, but you should never be getting yourself in that spot in the first place. As they have all said, by raise/folding you are turning your hand into a bluff if you plan on folding to a shove. You shouldn't EVER be raising the flop, then looking for a tell to decide if you want to call if he shoves...especially since they are not totally reliable. You raise with the intent on calling a shove since as I said, your hand is massively underrepped. -LIVE PRO (right ryan?!)
I completely agree with you. I had no intention of folding when I initially raised him. It was the way he insta shoved and seemed so freaking confident about his hand, even when I verbalized that I had KK. I can't argue that raising and then folding was a good play, it was just the read I got from him that told me I was beat. I wasn't looking for a tell when I raised, I just happened to get a big one. Do you think he made a mistake? If he flat calls my raise then I probably go broke on this hand.

#52 FARGOpokerND

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 07:09 AM

View Postcashman, on Friday, July 30th, 2010, 7:25 AM, said:

I completely agree with you. I had no intention of folding when I initially raised him. It was the way he insta shoved and seemed so freaking confident about his hand, even when I verbalized that I had KK. I can't argue that raising and then folding was a good play, it was just the read I got from him that told me I was beat. I wasn't looking for a tell when I raised, I just happened to get a big one. Do you think he made a mistake? If he flat calls my raise then I probably go broke on this hand.
So, in reality, you made this whole thread as a brag post then. You got a live read and folded KK in a spot where you should never fold KK but due to live tells you were able to get away from it. So, I don't understand what the point of asking "what would you guys do here?" when you 1. have a read which we don't know about (and even if I saw the 'read' I probably would still pay off because I can see me trying to convey calm if I had QQ and my opponent told me he had KK) and 2. you just want validation and "omg nice read bro!" from all of us.

#53 Tehtoe

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 01:09 PM

omg nice read bro!

#54 cashman

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 01:31 PM

View PostFARGOpokerND, on Friday, July 30th, 2010, 7:09 AM, said:

So, in reality, you made this whole thread as a brag post then. You got a live read and folded KK in a spot where you should never fold KK but due to live tells you were able to get away from it. So, I don't understand what the point of asking "what would you guys do here?" when you 1. have a read which we don't know about (and even if I saw the 'read' I probably would still pay off because I can see me trying to convey calm if I had QQ and my opponent told me he had KK) and 2. you just want validation and "omg nice read bro!" from all of us.
Oops, you caught me. I never once said anything about the read I got in any of my previous posts! Well maybe I did in almost every post but maybe you didn't read that.

#55 Stupidhead

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 03:35 PM

View Postcashman, on Friday, July 30th, 2010, 2:31 PM, said:

Oops, you caught me. I never once said anything about the read I got in any of my previous posts! Well maybe I did in almost every post but maybe you didn't read that.

View PostTehtoe, on Monday, July 26th, 2010, 6:16 PM, said:

absolutely trbl

View Postkobe2odom8, on Monday, July 26th, 2010, 6:19 PM, said:

pretty trbl

View PostHighwayStar, on Monday, July 26th, 2010, 6:21 PM, said:

turrible

View PostFARGOpokerND, on Monday, July 26th, 2010, 6:22 PM, said:

92% trbl

View Posttbrick412, on Monday, July 26th, 2010, 6:25 PM, said:

wow, just trbl

View PostTrueAce13, on Monday, July 26th, 2010, 6:27 PM, said:

crazy knuckle-headed turrible

View Postbabylondonks, on Monday, July 26th, 2010, 6:28 PM, said:

oh by golly gosh that's trbl

View PostTehtoe, on Monday, July 26th, 2010, 6:31 PM, said:

in light of new developments...yup, still trbl

View PostFARGOpokerND, on Monday, July 26th, 2010, 6:31 PM, said:

Either way...we all can agree....its trbl


#56 FARGOpokerND

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 06:10 PM

View Postcashman, on Friday, July 30th, 2010, 4:31 PM, said:

Oops, you caught me. I never once said anything about the read I got in any of my previous posts! Well maybe I did in almost every post but maybe you didn't read that.
You asked what you should do, we told you, you then came back with "but I had a read." So idk what you want from us...

#57 TrueAce13

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 06:48 AM

View PostFARGOpokerND, on Saturday, July 31st, 2010, 7:10 PM, said:

You asked what you should do, we told you, you then came back with "but I had a read." So idk what you want from us...

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