-LeroyAce- 0 Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Me and about 7-8 of my friends play poker every weekend. Sometimes regular ring game but mostly tourney style. Which i prefer. It was the second tourney of the night and i had made no money on the first. So i was really looking for hands that would be key factors in winning the tourney. So heres what happend. Its about 10 hands in and im down to 1000 from 1500. I get delt Ah Ad and im first to bet after the BB. So I raise to 200 from 30BB. The next three fold. My younger brother calls. And my other younger brother calls. So im really liking this now. and im starting to think that i could double up on this hand and be chip leader. Flop comes up 6s, As, about now im really getting excited. And the last flop card 10s. And my excitment level dropped a few notches. Im thinking "just great theres a flush Ace high sitting there." So im thinking i have to make a big bet at this probbaly should go all in. Hopefully my brothers dont have the flush. and if they do they are only maybe with a J. So i made my decision. But i wasnt first to bet my brother Ryan was. And ryan went all in. Which put me all in. I was so dissapointed. Ryan is ussually not that agressive of a player and I am. I am the one supposed to be going all in!! I was thinking about it for about a few minutes and knew that he could be bluffing. But i knew that he wasnt. I could get lucky and get the fullhouse or even four of a kind but i knew the chances of that were about 10%. So i let everyone know how much I dont want to fold but that i HAD to. And my friend Nic said what do you got the rockets. So i flipped them over and i watched my brothers to face to see if i could get a read. His face didnt change. So i thought for a few more seconds and looked across the table at my other brother who had to still go after me and I folded. My brother Jesse who was next also flipped his cards showing and ace and folded with no spades. And i knew that the four As was not possible. Ryan told me later that he had the flush. And that made me feel a lot better about the laydown. And we never checked the turn or the river to see if i would have got the fullhouse. As much as I am proud about laying down that hand and making the right decision. I still think about it. And i KNow now that I should have made a bigger bet. Like around 500 instead of 200. and won the blinds instead of lossing 200. I am curious if anyone would have played that hand different. Would anyone have gone for the fullhouse? Or called on the bluff even though hes not known for bluffing? Link to post Share on other sites
Naismith 0 Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Oh boy.Okay, firstly, your bet of 200 wasn't too small. It was, in fact, too big. It worked out for you when you got two callers, but you don't want to just take the blinds with this hand.Now, you flopped top set and you were bet into. Obviously, you know the players better than I do, but the only play here is to push all in. If he has the flush, well, you still will win 35 percent of the time. It's more likely that he has a pair and a flush draw, though.To summarize...Raise less. Flop top set. Push all in. Link to post Share on other sites
Kappa1873 0 Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 I think it's a stretch to assume he automatically has the flush because he bet into you.Regardless, even if he did have the flush, you've got to push. You're getting nearly 2 to 1 on your money, and you would have just a little more than half the chips you started with if you fold. If you push, you likely have the best hand. If not, you still have a great drawing hand at a chance to win a big pot and give yourself a chance to win the tournament.No offense, but I think you have a lot of work to do on your game...or at least of your understanding of the game. Link to post Share on other sites
Scott3705 0 Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 This has got to be a current poster that got bored and opened this account today. Link to post Share on other sites
-LeroyAce- 0 Posted July 13, 2006 Author Share Posted July 13, 2006 OK i have been playing poker for like 8 years now. And also ive been playing with my brothers for just as long. Its not like i "thought" he had the flush i knew he had it. Why would i risk the whole tournement on a hand i knew i was beaten on. Yes there was a chance that i could have won. And yes i was getting 2 to 1 on my money. But i dont think that i have call just call because i had a great hand. I am still satisfied with my decison. I layed down the inferior hand and thats never a bad thing. And i didnt just join this forum cause i wanted to tell this story. Id fold three of a kind to a flush anyday. And if im getting this right you guys would call all in with 2 pair when theres a straight draw on the flop. Just wondering cause id love to take your money with my straight! Link to post Share on other sites
mrdannyg 274 Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 I'm drunk and I have a headache, so I decided to read that since my head hurts too much too sleep.I consider it my duty to report to any FCPers that trust my opinion that it is not worth the read.To the OP - it is a ridiculously stupid fold. if either: your brother is dumb enough to go all-in there with a flush against someone who won't even call with top set OR you're dumb enough to fold to someone who is pushing all in against someone who is even considering not calling, then neither of you should ever play poker again.Don't fold there, and more importantly, don't read the original post. It is not worth the lack of paragraphs.I would like my $0.98 in change now please. OK i have been playing poker for like 8 years now. And also ive been playing with my brothers for just as long. Its not like i "thought" he had the flush i knew he had it. Why would i risk the whole tournement on a hand i knew i was beaten on. Yes there was a chance that i could have won. And yes i was getting 2 to 1 on my money. But i dont think that i have call just call because i had a great hand. I am still satisfied with my decison. I layed down the inferior hand and thats never a bad thing. And i didnt just join this forum cause i wanted to tell this story. Id fold three of a kind to a flush anyday. And if im getting this right you guys would call all in with 2 pair when theres a straight draw on the flop. Just wondering cause id love to take your money with my straight!this is probably a joke. no one is this dumb, while also thinking they're this smart, and also supposedly asking for advice. Link to post Share on other sites
LongLiveYorke 38 Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 I layed down the inferior hand and thats never a bad thing.It often is. They're called pot odds. Here's a good example:Let's say that we're getting 2 to 1 on our money with top set versus what could be a flush.Due to our pot odds, we only need to win this one out of every three times. Against a made flush, we're about 34% to win, so we're getting exactly the right odds to call. Against anything else, we're WAY ahead.So, in conclusion, your folding the inferior hand here was "a bad thing" (ignoring payout structure, that is). Link to post Share on other sites
mkeller3086 0 Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Oh boy.Okay, firstly, your bet of 200 wasn't too small. It was, in fact, too big. It worked out for you when you got two callers, but you don't want to just take the blinds with this hand.I think if you are in a game where players will cold call raises of this size without discretion then a raise of this size is fine. If they will call raises up to 400 then hell, raise to 400. Link to post Share on other sites
Scott3705 0 Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 OK i have been playing poker for like 8 years now. And also ive been playing with my brothers for just as long. Its not like i "thought" he had the flush i knew he had it. Why would i risk the whole tournement on a hand i knew i was beaten on. Yes there was a chance that i could have won. And yes i was getting 2 to 1 on my money. But i dont think that i have call just call because i had a great hand. I am still satisfied with my decison. I layed down the inferior hand and thats never a bad thing. And i didnt just join this forum cause i wanted to tell this story. Id fold three of a kind to a flush anyday. And if im getting this right you guys would call all in with 2 pair when theres a straight draw on the flop. Just wondering cause id love to take your money with my straight! But i knew that he wasnt. I could get lucky and get the fullhouse or even four of a kind but i knew the chances of that were about 10%.Just stop. Go away. Link to post Share on other sites
DonkSlayer 1 Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 This has got to be a current poster that got bored and opened this account today. Just stop. Go away.Seconded. Link to post Share on other sites
Naismith 0 Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 OK i have been playing poker for like 8 years now. And also ive been playing with my brothers for just as long. Its not like i "thought" he had the flush i knew he had it. Why would i risk the whole tournement on a hand i knew i was beaten on. Yes there was a chance that i could have won. And yes i was getting 2 to 1 on my money. But i dont think that i have call just call because i had a great hand. I am still satisfied with my decison. I layed down the inferior hand and thats never a bad thing. And i didnt just join this forum cause i wanted to tell this story. Id fold three of a kind to a flush anyday. And if im getting this right you guys would call all in with 2 pair when theres a straight draw on the flop. Just wondering cause id love to take your money with my straight!I'm not sure what the point of your original post was if you intended on coming back and arguing with those of us that responded. Were you looking for advice? Apparently not. Were you trying to get a bunch of really good, really knowledgeable, really experienced players and me to be wowed by what you think is an amazing fold? I guess so.To answer your last two sort-of-sentences. I would lay down two pair on a board with a possible straight. I would also lay down a set on a three-flush board, although that wouldn't be very common. I would do both under the right circumstances. Your description of events does not qualify as the right circumstance.If this is an honest post, I am willing to take you up on your last statement and back any player that regularly posts here against you. Yes, you might take the occassional big pot off of them when they flop top two and you've rolled out a straight, but they will have paid for that freeroll with all of the pots they've stolen because you seem to think folding top set is a good idea.I'm not trying to be rude here. This is a place where people come for advice and posting a hand and then arguing with everyone just undermines the point of it. I just think you've chosen the wrong forum to brag about a bad play. Link to post Share on other sites
-LeroyAce- 0 Posted July 14, 2006 Author Share Posted July 14, 2006 Ok. So i really wasnt trying so much to brag that i made an awesome fold. Reading back in my initial post i can see where you guys were coming from. And I really do respect any contructive criticism that more experianced players have about my decision to fold. I just didnt really expect so many people to think that what i did was "stupid" and tell that to me straight up. That kind of criticism is just plain rude. So i just have to say Naismith thanks for the advice! And Scott3705 and mrdannyg, you guys can take your beat set of aces and shove them up your ***!! And cry all the way out of the poker room whining " I HAD to call!". Link to post Share on other sites
Scott3705 0 Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 Ok. So i really wasnt trying so much to brag that i made an awesome fold. Reading back in my initial post i can see where you guys were coming from. And I really do respect any contructive criticism that more experianced players have about my decision to fold. I just didnt really expect so many people to think that what i did was "stupid" and tell that to me straight up. That kind of criticism is just plain rude. So i just have to say Naismith thanks for the advice! And Scott3705 and mrdannyg, you guys can take your beat set of aces and shove them up your ***!! And cry all the way out of the poker room whining " I HAD to call!".I swear this has got to be DrawingDead. No way this is a real person. If these really isn't DrawingDead....... never ever post here again and clutter up the board. ever. Unless you wanna post your handle. That would be agreeable to all parties. Link to post Share on other sites
timwakefield 68 Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 you guys can take your beat set of aces and shove them up your ***!! And cry all the way out of the poker room whining " I HAD to call!".If you're a real guy, I just want to point out that some of the people you are laughing at and insulting make a pretty good living playing poker. Link to post Share on other sites
XXEddie 0 Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 OK i have been playing poker for like 8 years now . And also ive been playing with my brothers for just as long. Its not like i "thought" he had the flush i knew he had it. Why would i risk the whole tournement on a hand i knew i was beaten on. Yes there was a chance that i could have won. And yes i was getting 2 to 1 on my money. But i dont think that i have call just call because i had a great hand. I am still satisfied with my decison. I layed down the inferior hand and thats never a bad thing. And i didnt just join this forum cause i wanted to tell this story. Id fold three of a kind to a flush anyday. And if im getting this right you guys would call all in with 2 pair when theres a straight draw on the flop. Just wondering cause id love to take your money with my straight! and you think a flush v. a set is 90/10. Not to mention the fact that you turned over your hand WHILE THERE WAS ANOTHER PLAYER LEFT TO ACT! Thats just dumb.YSAPKYyeah, and when we have 2 pair on a str8 draw board youre always gonna have the str. Not to mention the fact that we all play pretty high limits and you play dumb home games and judging by what you said you probably are stuck grinding it out at the .05/.10 tables and if you won what most of us sit down with you would **** your pants. So you would probably never have the opportunity to bust us.side note; I laugh the other 80% of the time when you fold and your opponent has a weaker set or 2 pair Link to post Share on other sites
-LeroyAce- 0 Posted July 15, 2006 Author Share Posted July 15, 2006 I dont think you guys understand! He HAD the flush. This is not a question of whether or not he had it. He had it. And i knew it 100% He didnt even have to tell me. Which he did later. Q 8 . I know the odds for me to win are 34%. BUt why risk the whole tourney 10 hands in. He had me covered even if he lost he wasnt out. So i REALLY want to ask again. All you guys call and risk the rest of your money and entertainment for the evening on a 34% chance of winning? Given any other circumstance yes i will be calling all in without even second guessing it at all. But i cant call with only any 10, 6, or A. Which gives me 7 outs. But in actuallity i had 6 outs cause the other ace was held by the other guy in the hand. Now i want to know for sure here. And give me an honest answer. Your in my positon. You know(no speculating, he lays his hand down for you to see) that he has the flush AQ1086 . You have 7 outs that you know of to beat him with the full house. You lose the tourney in last place if you dont get one. This was my situation!! Do you still call? And it would be nice if certain people would answer in a civillized manner. Without name calling and mentions of they "should never post here again" Cause i really appreciate and respect advice. And i dont respect pointless insults. Because telling someone that they are stupid because of a decison they made, while playing a card game. Actually makes you a better person than them, and makes you feel all warm and good inside. Link to post Share on other sites
Scott3705 0 Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 knew it 100%This is what I'm going to work off on. I don't think it's ever 100%. The best player in the word can't be 100% here against his own mother. If it really was 100% then it's not hard at all. But let's go with say... 90% of the time. That gives you more credit than I think you should have, but I'll be generous...preflop.... the pot is 600 and you have 800 left. 1) 90%if he has the flush... you're 2:1 to fill up and the pots laying you 1.75:1 (easy fold if you're 100% sure) But supposing you call EV from this scenario is -66.5%2) he has a smaller set protecting against flush. EV from this scenario is 9305%3) he's pushing the nut flush draw (which u say he doesen't bluff so maybe I would add more weight to the set) Ev from this scenario... 740Total weight EV = +24 which will clearly get much larger the more times you're wrong. And given the fact that you originally thought u would fill up 10% of the time and the fact you have neglected to realize the additional turn out u pick up in your last post, I am willing to guess you are going to be wrong much more often here. My last comment...With blinds that high, it's probably worth it to gamble up and try to take some chips here. Edit: 8 User(s) are browsing this forum (2 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)6 Members: fckthis, Kestral123, throwemaway, goheels, -LeroyAce-, Scott3705 Link to post Share on other sites
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