Ak In Nlhe

[erac22 0]

I'm starting to think more and more that there's no reason to raise and reraise preflop with AK. You only flop a pair 33 percent of the time, when you do you're probably outflopped at least 20 percent of the time, you probably get drawn out on another 10-20 percent of the time, and no one ever, ever, ever folds to continuation bets. The same goes for AQ- A10. I know AKs is one of my biggest losers over the past 10K hands. Can someone please explain the rationale for raising preflop with AK? How often do you fire a bullet on the turn with nothing? And if you get played back at on the flop, are you willing to defend your whole stack with just one pair and no significant read on your opponent?eracjust to clarify, my experience is at 100 and 200nl

[Mattnxtc 0]

You raise ak b/c you likely have the best hand preflop. Yes there are cases to be made for checking preflop and I will do it from the blinds at times. The bigger problem with ak is that people in nl overplay it way to often. It doesnt have near the value that it does in limit. Its not a hand you necessarily want to call an all in with and its not a hand you want to get overly crazy with preflop

[Jordan 1]

I'm starting to think more and more that there's no reason to raise and reraise preflop with AK. You only flop a pair 33 percent of the time, when you do you're probably outflopped at least 20 percent of the time, you probably get drawn out on another 10-20 percent of the time, and no one ever, ever, ever folds to continuation bets. The same goes for AQ- A10. I know AKs is one of my biggest losers over the past 10K hands. Can someone please explain the rationale for raising preflop with AK? How often do you fire a bullet on the turn with nothing? And if you get played back at on the flop, are you willing to defend your whole stack with just one pair and no significant read on your opponent?erac

If you honestly believe ppl never fold to C-bets, it's probably more or less because of your style. People fold all the time, and sometimes call all the time...so it varies from session to session, but a lot will depend on your image/style and how the table plays.I guess, I should first ask, are you talking about full ring or 6 max?Lemme know on that.I don't always re-raise AK pf, and I don't always call. It varies.You won't be able to get a real answer for the 'fire bullet on turn' question...it just varies to much.but are you talking 6 max or full ring?- Jordan

[erac22 0]

full ring, as far as my table image, my overall AF is only like .9, so I don't have a real aggressive image I don't think. My real issue is that if you raise preflop with AK-A10, and you get 3-4 callers, which is pretty typical at 100 and 200nl, especially if you raise in late position with lots of limpers, your bet after the flop, whether you actually hit it or not has to be pretty substantial. If you miss the flop, this means your betting out 9-12 bb's with ace high, if you flop tptk, the pot size is such that if someone min raises your flop bet, you're either folding or committing most of your stack. erac

[NoSup4U 0]

I seldom raise with AK from the blinds, unless I think there is a good chance I can take the pot down right there.As a previous poster said, you're generally raising/reraising because you have the strongest hand pf and you want to get your money in then. While its true you will only hit your flop 1/3 of the time, that also holds true for anyone that calls you. I'm not sure why you feel you get outflopped 20% of the time if you hit your A or K. Thats just, way high imo.If you aren't reraising pf with AK, then what are you reraising with? AA and KK only? This seems predicatable to me. AK should at a minimum be a reraising hand, along with others assuming your opponents are reasonably smart, which they are at 200NL.I can definitely relate to you about AK being a big loser. My first 20K hands, AK was my second most losing hand in $ value. But I realized it was coming from the fact that I overplayed it after the flop, not before it. Its a hard hand for sure to get used to playing. I prefer to be aggresive with it preflop, and reraise if there is already a raise. If called, its easier to put your opponent on a hand. If we see the flop for just one raise, I try and keep the pot as small as possible, while still pushing out draws if there seem to be any.Mark

[Jordan 1]

I seldom raise with AK from the blinds, unless I think there is a good chance I can take the pot down right there.As a previous poster said, you're generally raising/reraising because you have the strongest hand pf and you want to get your money in then. While its true you will only hit your flop 1/3 of the time, that also holds true for anyone that calls you. I'm not sure why you feel you get outflopped 20% of the time if you hit your A or K. Thats just, way high imo.If you aren't reraising pf with AK, then what are you reraising with? AA and KK only? This seems predicatable to me. AK should at a minimum be a reraising hand, along with others assuming your opponents are reasonably smart, which they are at 200NL.I can definitely relate to you about AK being a big loser. My first 20K hands, AK was my second most losing hand in $ value. But I realized it was coming from the fact that I overplayed it after the flop, not before it. Its a hard hand for sure to get used to playing. I prefer to be aggresive with it preflop, and reraise if there is already a raise. If called, its easier to put your opponent on a hand. If we see the flop for just one raise, I try and keep the pot as small as possible, while still pushing out draws if there seem to be any.Mark

Bolded stuff is good. Your AF is low. People are picking up on the hands you raise and how you play post flop.Open up your range a bit more, don't only raise AA - QQ and AK/AQ. How many tables do you play at once?- Jordan

[erac22 0]

3-4 tables

[Jordan 1]

3-4 tables

cut down to 2 and learn how to play laggier, then go back to 3-4.I'm not saying go crazy, but if ppl have you tagged as one style, and you dont like it, here's how you change...i know ppl who multi table NL well, and some not so well. I'd advise cutting down until you are a bit more aggressive and playing some more hands differently....comfortably.- Jordan

[CobaltBlue 662]

full ring, as far as my table image, my overall AF is only like .9, so I don't have a real aggressive image I don't think. My real issue is that if you raise preflop with AK-A10, and you get 3-4 callers, which is pretty typical at 100 and 200nl, especially if you raise in late position with lots of limpers, your bet after the flop, whether you actually hit it or not has to be pretty substantial. If you miss the flop, this means your betting out 9-12 bb's with ace high, if you flop tptk, the pot size is such that if someone min raises your flop bet, you're either folding or committing most of your stack.

No one said you have to c-bet if the flop sucks and you're facing 3-4 opponents. Save the c-bets for when the flop texture is beneficial to your hand, you've got good table image, your position is good, and you're against 1-3 opponents that you can put on ranges. Granted, that should be somewhere in the range of 80% of the time. If you're getting too many callers pre-flop, raise a bit more. Also, your c-bets might be too large. You don't have to bet the size of the pot. Usually something in the range of slightly more than half the pot (again, depending on a number of factors) works pretty well for me. That way, you're not having to win as often as when you bet larger.For example, let's say you've picked up AK in LP, and you raise to 4xBB after an MP limper. Let's say everyone folds and the MP calls. The flop comes Q74r. He checks. You're sure as hell going to put in a c-bet here unless you're against some sort of air check-raising maniac. I recommend something in the range of 5-6xBB. If he calls (he likely won't without some sort of decent holding), then you re-evaluate on the turn.Now let's say that you've got AK in EP and raise to 3xBB. You get four callers behind you and the flop comes Th 9h 8h and you don't hold a heart. Obviously, this is a terrible spot for a c-bet and you should probably check and fold.Oh, and I hestitate to add too much complexity, but there are sometimes when you're going to delay your c-bet until the turn or make a second c-bet on the turn after the one on the flop. You should have good reasons for making these plays though. That's usually a result of knowing your opponents well. I've run into plenty of opponents that will call your flop c-bet just because they're calling stations, but they'll usually give up when you fire again on the turn.

[Jordan 1]

No one said you have to c-bet if the flop sucks and you're facing 3-4 opponents. Save the c-bets for when the flop texture is beneficial to your hand, you've got good table image, your position is good, and you're against 1-3 opponents that you can put on ranges. Granted, that should be somewhere in the range of 80% of the time. If you're getting too many callers pre-flop, raise a bit more. Also, your c-bets might be too large. You don't have to bet the size of the pot. Usually something in the range of slightly more than half the pot (again, depending on a number of factors) works pretty well for me. That way, you're not having to win as often as when you bet larger.For example, let's say you've picked up AK in LP, and you raise to 4xBB after an MP limper. Let's say everyone folds and the MP calls. The flop comes Q74r. He checks. You're sure as hell going to put in a c-bet here unless you're against some sort of air check-raising maniac. I recommend something in the range of 5-6xBB. If he calls (he likely won't without some sort of decent holding), then you re-evaluate on the turn.Now let's say that you've got AK in EP and raise to 3xBB. You get four callers behind you and the flop comes Th 9h 8h and you don't hold a heart. Obviously, this is a terrible spot for a c-bet and you should probably check and fold.Oh, and I hestitate to add too much complexity, but there are sometimes when you're going to delay your c-bet until the turn or make a second c-bet on the turn after the one on the flop. You should have good reasons for making these plays though. That's usually a result of knowing your opponents well. I've run into plenty of opponents that will call your flop c-bet just because they're calling stations, but they'll usually give up when you fire again on the turn.

I agree with this, and hopefully OP already knows a lot of this already.The last paragraph is good stuff too....def. is a different subject though here..- Jordan

[Naismith 0]

Another good reason to raise preflop with AK is because you often will get heads up with hands you dominate and won't need your AK to hit or with smallish pairs that will have a hard time calling down without a set.I've reraised players with AK preflop and then slowplayed boards where I didn't hit if I knew the player well enough to know that they didn't have a pocket pair. I couldn't do that if I called his raise and let two other players play and then saw an 8-7-3 boad.As far as pocket pairs go, think of all the times you've called a preflop raise with something like 66 and folded on a flop of Q-10-7 when there was a continuation bet. I'd imagine it has happened a lot. Now, don't you think that a good percent of the time, the preflop raiser had AK?Lastly, I limped with AK the other day in a live cash game. Two players limped behind me and both blinds played. The flop was K-8-3. The SB bet 30 (!) into a pot of 10 dollars. The player to my left grabbed a stack of 30 and placed another stack next to it. I folded. They both got it all in. What hands am I eager to see here? Do I want to see the player behind me flip over KQ and the SB flip over 83 and know I probably could've stacked the player behind me if I raised? Do I want to see KJ vs K9 and know I folded the winner? Nothing will make me feel good here. By the way, I've been drinking a bit, so I apologize for the rambling. I think my points have merit, though. At the very least they do in my mind.

[erac22 0]

thanks for the replies, lots of good stuff here.

[CobaltBlue 662]

I agree with this, and hopefully OP already knows a lot of this already.

From his original post, I wasn't sure that he did, but now he does. =)Let me re-emphasize what some others have said...you need to be re-raising with AK at least some of the time pre-flop if you're playing against slightly competent opponents. Otherwise, what are you re-raising with other than AA/KK? If you also throw in some mindful re-raises with AQs/QQ/JJ/TT, it'll help you keep your range a little wider.

[BIG_L_RIP 0]

I call with AK a lot in position because I'm often confident I can move the EP raiser off his own AK when the board is small. Or surprise a fool who thinks KJ = nuts. that said, I guess reraising it would make such a task simpler. I'm just generally a fan of postflop play, which may mean my own preflop aggression is a weakness. Again, the counterpoint is that I play so many hands, that simply calling in position infuriates and unnerves opponents who have a hard time putting me on a hand. Cash games are not tournies...we needn't always play big hands with AK if, as Cobalt says, the situation is not conducive. If you RR with it from the blinds, make it hefty. Very hard to play out of position with an ugly flop, of course.

[krup24 0]

If you honestly believe ppl never fold to C-bets, it's probably more or less because of your style. People fold all the time, and sometimes call all the time...so it varies from session to session, but a lot will depend on your image/style and how the table plays.I don't always re-raise AK pf, and I don't always call. It varies.- Jordan

QFT

[Abbaddabba 0]

I'm starting to think more and more that there's no reason to raise and reraise preflop with AK. You only flop a pair 33 percent of the time, when you do you're probably outflopped at least 20 percent of the time, you probably get drawn out on another 10-20 percent of the time, and no one ever, ever, ever folds to continuation bets.

Then maybe you should consider only betting when you think you have the best hand.Just a thought.

[screech 0]

I'm starting to think more and more that there's no reason to raise and reraise preflop with AK. You only flop a pair 33 percent of the time, when you do you're probably outflopped at least 20 percent of the time, you probably get drawn out on another 10-20 percent of the time, and no one ever, ever, ever folds to continuation bets. The same goes for AQ- A10. I know AKs is one of my biggest losers over the past 10K hands. Can someone please explain the rationale for raising preflop with AK? How often do you fire a bullet on the turn with nothing? And if you get played back at on the flop, are you willing to defend your whole stack with just one pair and no significant read on your opponent?eracjust to clarify, my experience is at 100 and 200nl

VALUE.