$12.5k To $250k Challenge

[seemorenuts 0]

Three weeks or so ago my online roll cracked $10K with a $6K first place MTT finish. My online bankroll is sitting at $12.5K now.I started with about $20 about 3-4 months ago (to be honest, it went up and down like a yoyo without exaggeration from $20 to $3000 at least three times) at pokertime.com but their rebuy tournaments have a bug which doesn't award a table of 6 people who requested addons though all had paid. It took me over 30 days for them to understand that they had to refund the entire monies spent in such a tournament (since it screws up your planning for the entire tournament) blaming instead the software designer, microgaming. That was a good enough reason for me to leave but let me tell you, there's still a viable overlay at prima network sites.I left pokertime with about $3000, transferring it to mansion.com, which also has a number of software bugs and mass disconnections (which the site washes its hands of, do other better sites have redundant multiple servers?). Two recent cashes there popped my roll there to $9K ($2K yesterday, but those tournament fees eat up your roll fast), but I'm thinking of leaving for a prop site that pays 135% of rakeback. Again, the tournament overlays are best on Friday and Saturday mornings, as well as the Tuesday and Sunday freezeouts for $110K and $150K respectively. No cash games besides some small stakes NLHE.I may invest in some monitors to multi-table, but I have little to no familiarity with tabling more than 2 and rarely 4 ... I added $1400 to start a roll at worldpx.com and that's sitting at $3k now--August 28th saw the start of something really cool at worldpx, they now give you a choice of tables that provide hand histories as usual and those that DO NOT, so you can relax about people tracking your play. I will stick to those latter tables.Yes, they have tournament overlays, but hey, they're so good I'll let you research that yourself * (VIP MTTs)So lemme see, how about a year to get to $250K? Maybe $100K is more realistic, but why not push harder?Anyone want to join me? Starting today...P.S. I'm not bragging when I say I started at $20 (and bounced down to that several times, at least 3 times).I avoid small stakes cash games where the rake is just too high.I started with $1+0 tournaments and freerolls.I strictly avoid b&m casinos, like I've said, unless you have $20K to play, the rake or session is too high unless you're DN-like in skill. Ditto for tournaments without an overlay.I go to sites where there's an overlay sitting there for me, so I sacrifice the variety and crowds of the pokerstars and fulltilt, etc.Every tournament I've played in, there has been an overlay of about 50-300%... stay at places like these long enough and the house will pay you to grow your roll.Hope this helps. * I spent only 2.5 hours today at LHE 6-max 10/20 with 75% rakeback; so not only did I luck out and make $750, but on Monday I get $76.12 in rakeback! Nice cushion, and calms you a bit on the rougher streaks.Add the expected value of their VIP MTTS, and I'm getting $73US PER HOUR BONUS in value if I play the 2.5 hours required weekly to get into the VIP MTTS, worldpx.comHere's hoping all FCPers prosper...

[Merby 3]

At first, I thought you were spamming (by dropping names of poker websites). Then I saw that you were bashing two of the three websites that you mentionned, so you have either set up:a) a cleverly disguised spam post for the third website, orB) an innocent "challenge" thread with lofty goalsBecause I am in a good mood (look at my avatar), I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this is the start of a challenge thread with lofty goals. Good luck targeting 6 figures (100,000 or 250,000). If you keep it as a "fun goal" and keep realistic short term bankroll goals then I say good luck, have fun and keep us updated. I recommend keeping a monthly goal like "increase my bankroll by 5%" or better yet, something along the lines of "Play a minimum of x hands per month and maintain a ROI of y ptBB/100"Cheers and good luck,Merby

[simo_8ball 0]

I am in a good mood (look at my avatar)

Lol.

[seemorenuts 0]

At first, I thought you were spamming (by dropping names of poker websites). Then I saw that you were bashing two of the three websites that you mentionned, so you have either set up:a) a cleverly disguised spam post for the third website, or B) an innocent "challenge" thread with lofty goalsBecause I am in a good mood (look at my avatar), I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this is the start of a challenge thread with lofty goals. Good luck targeting 6 figures (100,000 or 250,000). If you keep it as a "fun goal" and keep realistic short term bankroll goals then I say good luck, have fun and keep us updated. I recommend keeping a monthly goal like "increase my bankroll by 5%" or better yet, something along the lines of "Play a minimum of x hands per month and maintain a ROI of y ptBB/100"Cheers and good luck,Merby

I guess the last line (modified 4 times) of my post should sum it up.I want the FCP community to enjoy poker and that means making money the fastest and easiest way...if I were selfish, I'd keep my trap shut, but I think there's money for all good players...You should see the email trail I have with mansion.com, I'm so mad at those guys (but use my anger as entertainment) for bungling up and failing to improve their site. I thought of posting those emails but it would be cruel, similar to pointing out craniofacial deformities of hospital patients...I see no reason why we should subsidize the stars who have made it by playing at their established sites UNLESS they give us an overlay. So let the market decide... you could erase all the sites I mentioned, and do the research yourself--you'd arrive at similar conclusions.BTW, mansion has an affiliate program where they don't pay nor do they answer my 40 emails about why they suck; and worldpx.com has NO affiliate program, NOR any bonus codes (though their website mentions both, but that's out of date, I wonder if they've removed mention of those yet, lol).So that should make people a bit happier. Lastly, prima network sites had revised their guarantees about 3 months ago to give the player less value... so that's even less reason to play there now... and I'm chiding them for their poor treatment of the rebuy bug, don't screw with the customer... that's my message... lol.P.S. I had a good day today at the 10/20 LHE, and of course I understand there's variance .Lol, I forgot to add that I sat down for 2 hands of 20/40 LHE and made $263... like that'll happen every time... ha ha ha ha....

[Veener Schnitz 0]

obv. one giant brag post

[chgocubs99 0]

Spam, lockNo SW.

[owise1 0]

How much of an overlay is your minimum requirement?Where in Toronto are you? Have you played in any of the FCP games in T.O. ?

[seemorenuts 0]

How much of an overlay is your minimum requirement?Where in Toronto are you? Have you played in any of the FCP games in T.O. ?

No formal minimum requirement for overlays I just look for the best deal... for instance, the Monday and Wednesday rebuy tourneys at Mansion.com have smaller overlays now, sometimes zero--but since I'm in the habit of playing them, I've ignored the absence of an overlay--but not for long... also gone (July 28th? 2007) are the days they held $100K guaranteed tourneys 7 days a week with only 450-650 players showing up where house needed 952 players to break even--the overlays were bigger then, dollar-wise.Just a rough calculation, 166 players is what I figure the house needs to break even on the rebuy tourney guarantees (it's false, but I assume no one drops out but everyone rebuys once and adds on once on average), so Monday's 7am (Eastern Time) tourney had 121 players, and the 4pm tourney had 151 players... so that's disappearing...The freezeouts are much better, Tuesday's has about 600-750 players and the house needs 1047 players to break even. Sunday's freezeout has about 1000-1100 players and the house needs 1429 players to break even.The 5K added VIP MTTs at worldpx.com have an average this week of 137 players showing up, shelling out $10+0 EF so the average prize fund is $6370. That's an EV of $46.50 x 3 MTTs= $139.50. I.e. you pay $10 x3 = $30 for that value (ignoring the rake requirement for the moment, which should give $25 to the house)!I'm the best player who used to play at redhotpokertour (Serge Beauchesne is just as good, and Ben Iscoe is a super-freak at reading the board, then there are people who are great but they left, as they don't get their jollies playing free poker, lol...).I don't know or play with the FCP crowd in Toronto--there is another Serge that knows some friends of mine and the FCP staff... who all know Daniel. I'm centrally located--I'm going to shop for some of the better DVDs and videos around for 6-max, etc. I still think we should get together and play online at the same physical location--to discuss hands that are already folded to our advantage without ethical violations.I don't see this as a brag thread, I'm providing useful information and inspiration that is of no advantage to me. Just take what you read here to motivate yourselves--who gives a rat's ass who I am? I could be a fictional cartoon character for all you should care.Who's up to this challenge?Quick, before my bankroll goes back to $300 (is that modest enough for you now? Oh, and the total I made Sept 10th is $1200 for cash games, under 3 hours, and hell, you won't hear about it when I lose twice as much--like I said, these posts are to encourage all of us, some delusion is part of that game.)

[Jargonator 0]

you might of adressed this already but,Why don't you play on the larger sites like Stars & FT? Would the volume of bad players not compensate for the lack of overlays in the long term?

[flintsword 4]

So lemme see, how about a year to get to $250K? Maybe $100K is more realistic, but why not push harder?...Anyone want to join me? Starting today...Here's hoping all FCPers prosper...

First of all seemorenuts, congratulations on your $2,000+ win since I know you have been hard at work to improve your play and your bankroll, in that order.Good bankroll management and improved play is a sure way to improve. Someone points out (correctly) that you should flee bug-infested sites and try our FullTiltPoker or Pokerstars, but your point on large overlays is a good one from a bankroll management point of view.Your post is *not* a brag post ... This is a brag post:Dear seemorenuts, Gee, congratulations on your $2,000 win ... by the way, I came in 35th out of 3,499 in the $750,000 at FullTiltPoker this Sunday and added $2,250 to my bankroll. so you are on for the race on who can build their bankroll faster. I have a bit of a head start with my FullTiltPoker Paris Grand Prix win of $16,000 in April and my Omaha winnings recently, but I *know* you will catch up! All in good fun ... So many players on FullContactPoker are great players and some have absolutely frighteningly large bankrolls, precisely because they are good players. For the rest of us mortals, we grind away and chop away until we finally win a tournament in a big way and/or win regularly from our cash game of choice.It is good to share true success stories (BTW, I *did* come in 35th out of 3,499 in the $750K to win $2,250 ) but the truth is we have a long, long, long way to go before we become "good" players.Some FCP members are already there, but most of us (me included for sure) are not.So congrats and go gettum ... and to quote another FCP member: "We Demand Updates ".

[pocket_change 0]

I enjoyed this post. However, I think it's more difficult for U.S. players to hop sites like you've done unless we have an off-shore account. Am I wrong?Good luck on your goal...$20 to $250k would be amazing and it seems like you're on your way.

[king1305 0]

I'll do a $1.25 to $25 challenge?Ohh and the best of luck to you OP, I hope you crush your goal and TP/MM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[seemorenuts 0]

you might of adressed this already but,Why don't you play on the larger sites like Stars & FT? Would the volume of bad players not compensate for the lack of overlays in the long term?

I did play for a small period of time during stars' 10 Billionth hand promo this summer.I think I'll have to return for the larger tournaments eventually.E.g., a breakdown of someone reaching $250K would include winning one or two $50K+ tournament prizes, plus $80-120K from cash games, and the rest from smaller tournament cashes.The smaller sites don't have these opportunities, but I've found I'd cash from a final table once every 3 weeks if I play every day (that's only up to 3MTTs a day, usually 2 on average).Did you guys ever calculate for instance how many tournaments Annette_15 or Imper1um play a day?RE volume of bad players...well, I guess that is relevant if you multitable but you only need so many fish and where I'm going there's sports betting sources of fish. You can only stuff so many fish (uh, in your mouth?) at a time.I think a roll bigger than $20K means it's time to move to a bigger site--of course, with 135% rakeback (why doesn't this just make people faint with happiness, I'll never understand) why go to a site taking all the rake?I've never played at FullTilt, what's it like?P.S. re flintsword's comment about improving... I don't think I'm improving in online tournament play.For some personal strange reason, I think it's a matter more of discipline, patience, luck and plugging small leaks (lol, I know I have them and I have to probably go to Harrington's text to plug them up; I'm embarrassed to let you guys know what I know I don't know). I know when I win 1st or 2nd etc. I realize I folded a hell of a lot of great hands (alternatively, I sucked out constantly, lol) such as JJ, QQ, KK, AQ, AK, mere trips, mere flushes when the board paired, etc..I've noticed (and maybe I'm wrong) that when there's about x players left and x/2 will cash, if you go all in more than you think is normal (you have first in vig and an M often as high as 10) then people play a bit too tight against you (they fold slightly too often, but how do I test this idea for truth?). This is even more true in b&m tournaments.The overlays takes care of my lack of perfection or expertise... so that's something to watch out for, getting lazy from huge rakeback and overlays...The point is, at least take the time to give yourself the maximum edge though site selection.

[seemorenuts 0]

I enjoyed this post. However, I think it's more difficult for U.S. players to hop sites like you've done unless we have an off-shore account. Am I wrong?Good luck on your goal...$20 to $250k would be amazing and it seems like you're on your way.

I don't need to hop once I've found a place with great overlays--isn't worldpx.com open to US players?I've heard of people using addresses outside of the US, but you risk losing all your money if the poker site decides to get nasty.Thanks for your support, I think one problem is not to spend the money as I earn it.I'd be lucky if there were lots of quiet periods punctuated by a nice tournament win--and I never understood the typical forum comment that cash games are easier to make a living from compared to tournaments--there's no intrinsic reason other than time commitment that makes this true, or is there?I'm already trying to bid on a collectible on ebay, but the seller refuses to accept a simple transfer within a known pokersite because he 'knows he'd gamble it away in hours' ... ironic, how he must hurt the sale of his own item! Also probably good for me, the money works harder on the poker site though the investment value of this item is fantastic.

[serge 904]

[i don't know or play with the FCP crowd in Toronto--there is another Serge that knows some friends of mine and the FCP staff... who all know Daniel. I'm centrally located--I'm going to shop for some of the better DVDs and videos around for 6-max, etc. I still think we should get together and [b]play online at the same physical location--to discuss hands that are already folded to our advantage without ethical violations.[/b]I guess I am the Serge you mention...Whats your name again??If you dont want to post it here, send me a pm and refresh my memoryGood luck with the Challenge...Maybe i will join u

[Sheiky 0]

What's an overlay?

[flintsword 4]

What's an overlay?

AN overlay is when a tournament has a guaranteed prizefund and when a lower than expected number of players turn out. Example: FullTiltPoker last weekend had a $750,000 guaranteed prizefund. The entry fee was $200 + $16 with $200 going to the prizefund. This means that they needed 3,750 players to break even. As it turned out, only 3,499 played, and this means there was an overlay of 251 players x $200 = $50,200 in this tournament. Extra money for the players ...

[seemorenuts 0]

AN overlay is when a tournament has a guaranteed prizefund and when a lower than expected number of players turn out. Example: FullTiltPoker last weekend had a $750,000 guaranteed prizefund. The entry fee was $200 + $16 with $200 going to the prizefund. This means that they needed 3,750 players to break even. As it turned out, only 3,499 played, and this means there was an overlay of 251 players x $200 = $50,200 in this tournament. Extra money for the players ...

No, no, no, no... don't confuse the newbs, an overlay is when you slept with a babe, and another one comes knocking on your door for sloppy seconds...I get that all the time when I play online poker, the ladies are just screaming at my front door, threatening to break it down and jump me.It gets more interesting when they're on you at the same time, sort of like multitabling...Serge, I'll pm you but only for something useful... lol, did you know Alfred's real first name is not Alfred?(don't piss him off by posting the real name here, I respect his privacy, sort of)I got turned down three times in my attempts to get expertholdem.com dvd sets, the whole kit and kaboodle (that's a sexual term, for the newbs) so if anyone in the Toronto area wants to help out, we can get these babies and start tearing apart the tables.1st attempt: producer refused to enter the Visa number correctly after goofing it up the first time;2nd attempt: I pi$$ed off the wholesaler by asking a favor twice, not for me but for a friend, etc.3rd attempt: reason unknown, but I think the retailer is wary of cross-border large transactions, not his fault, but I'm just speculating... UPDATE: Yes, the retailer got burned by a Canadian who denied ever wanting or getting the large package. That was over a month of profit for this part-time retailer, my perfect eBay feedback etc. was not enough. Problem is that to get a signature, you need to use FedEx or UPS (according to him, but I have several workarounds) and that means $50 plus $20 signup fees for delivery.So, ANY PEOPLE IN BUFFALO/NIAGARA FALLS NY WANT TO HELP defray the costs of getting these, I'll buy them off of you. PM me.These dvds are great, please check them out and post here! I gotta watch them!Okay, I gotta get back to my overlay... ha ha... keywords: Bountiful, BC, orgy, party... 400th post; and I make the lamest joke I've ever thought of, heh heh, what a thread ender...like someone farted (listen to Cat Stevens' song "Can't Keep It In" for the best live table fart song/poker chat abuse subject). I love how I cram 10 ideas into every thread and post I participate in...http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...07990&st=40#or use this:Overlay, just private message me if you want overlay--US players too. Edited September 15, 2007 by seemorenuts