100nl Tp, Paired Board

[Craigdog 0]

Party Poker $0.50/1 - 6 PlayersHero Button $132.05Villian SB $98.45Villian has not been too active and has only seen about 4 orbits, no stats Im afraid. Hero will have TAG image and has been raising with wide range on the button with little resistence.Hero holds: K Q Folds to Hero, Hero raises $4, SB calls $3.50, BB folds.Flop: K 3 9 SB bets $7, Hero calls $7Turn: 3 SB bets $24, Hero?

[GeneralGeeWhiz 0]

I call and see a river. I don't see him calling a 4x raise with many hands that have a trey in it. Unless he floated OOP and got lucky. The only hands i really worry about is K9, 99 and A3, but I have to believe we are ahead, and I call a bet on the river if it's not an A

[krup24 0]

i think we need to raise the flop here. we will get an idea where we at and take control of the hand. i hate feeling out of control of a hand that i opened in position.

[throwemaway 0]

i think we need to raise the flop here. we will get an idea where we at and take control of the hand. i hate feeling out of control of a hand that i opened in position.

So I see a lot of similarities between these two posts, despite the stake difference...We took the lead preflop and flopped essentially what we want to and get donk bet into on the flop..In the previous hand, I asked if anyone raises this flop and it seemed to be the consensus that on a dry board (like this one) it was better to just call..Could you clarify your reasoning for raising/calling in relation to both posts? http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...howtopic=115134

[krup24 0]

So I see a lot of similarities between these two posts, despite the stake difference...We took the lead preflop and flopped essentially what we want to and get donk bet into on the flop..In the previous hand, I asked if anyone raises this flop and it seemed to be the consensus that on a dry board (like this one) it was better to just call..Could you clarify your reasoning for raising/calling in relation to both posts? http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...howtopic=115134

i could justify why calling would work in this post as well but i raise this one.i actually raise the other flop as well in the other hand to take control of the action and potdifferences i see are TP/2K here and TP/4K in the other hand but we are in position in both hands, villian is a bit deeper stacked in other hand. i like being in control of the action so i would raise both hands on the flop donk bet.

[throwemaway 0]

i could justify why calling would work in this post as well but i raise this one.i actually raise the other flop as well in the other hand to take control of the action and potdifferences i see are TP/2K here and TP/4K in the other hand but we are in position in both hands, villian is a bit deeper stacked in other hand. i like being in control of the action so i would raise both hands on the flop donk bet.

I agree, so would I..but it feels like we may be in the minority possibly

[krup24 0]

I agree, so would I..but it feels like we may be in the minority possibly

definitely possible. could be a personal preference thing. i have learned though my time in this game that i want to make decisions as simple as possible especially with hands i raise pf and hit top pair. neither villian is shortstacked in these hands so i stand to lose a good chunk if i simply call down especially when villian will always have outs against us.

[Acid_Knight 2]

I raise donk bets with air enough that I'm certainly raising them with sets and TPGK hands like this one, but that's my style.As for the hand, I don't mind just calling him down here. The only card on the river I really don't wanna see is a J or T. I mean, his line is kind of weird overall and I have a good hand, so I'll try and take it to showdown.

[KennyMatch 0]

i really don't know - there are no draws out there so this guy isn't betting with that.there is no reason to fear a 3 so if he has that so be it.If he made a set on the flop, I would say he plays a little slower than this so as not to lose us.So, this may come down to a kicker race, we are not bad with our Q. (I fear AK most of all)I say we call him down and if he slows down we go All-in

[mtdesmoines 3]

Party Poker $0.50/1 - 6 PlayersHero Button $132.05Villian SB $98.45Villian has not been too active and has only seen about 4 orbits, no stats Im afraid. Hero will have TAG image and has been raising with wide range on the button with little resistence.Hero holds: K Q Folds to Hero, Hero raises $4, SB calls $3.50, BB folds.Flop: K 3 9 SB bets $7, Hero calls $7Turn: 3 SB bets $24, Hero?

Why just call the flop? Raise it.EDIT: After that, the hand plays itself.

[Craigdog 0]

thanks for the comments guys, I was unsure if I had played this correctly on the turn but it was irrelevant as the river was a K, he shoved all but $5 of his stack and I shoved and he folded so I can't tell you what he had but it was maybe A9...

[throwemaway 0]

thanks for the comments guys, I was unsure if I had played this correctly on the turn but it was irrelevant as the river was a K, he shoved all but $5 of his stack and I shoved and he folded so I can't tell you what he had but it was maybe A9...

meh, air

[cardcore 0]

omg shove

[psujohn 0]

Very read dependent btw calling flop and raising. I think w/o a read I prefer the flop raise but this line isn't bad. It always helps when you river the (near) nuts.

[mln_falcon 0]

Very read dependent btw calling flop and raising. I think w/o a read I prefer the flop raise but this line isn't bad. It always helps when you river the (near) nuts.

Without a read I prefer a flop call. My default is a call btw. Keeping the pot small when you don't know what your opponent is capable of is important I think. Is your intention to raise and fold to a 3 bet? That seems a little spewy.

[tskillz187 0]

Without a read I prefer a flop call. My default is a call btw. Keeping the pot small when you don't know what your opponent is capable of is important I think. Is your intention to raise and fold to a 3 bet? That seems a little spewy.

What do you do when you miss and have something like AQ on a K74 flop. My default is to always raise weakish leads at me when I'm the PFR. So I need to actually have a hand sometimes. Obv leads mean different things from different players, but a complete unknown I raise until I figure out why the hell he's donking in to me.

[Money022 0]

thanks for the comments guys, I was unsure if I had played this correctly on the turn but it was irrelevant as the river was a K, he shoved all but $5 of his stack and I shoved and he folded so I can't tell you what he had but it was maybe A9...

And had you raised him on the flop he probably folds. Instead you checked and he fired $24 on the turn and the majority of his remaining stack on the river.This is exactly why I prefer to just call on flops like this when donk lead into. Raising pretty much ends the hand and eliminates him firing a second barrel, or puts more of your money into a pot that's just going the other way. By calling your allow him the opportunity to try and bluff his way out of the hand, which means more monies for you.Of course for your more aggressive players you'll probably raise here because you'd do the same with air. But I think the calling line works well for most others.

[mln_falcon 0]

What do you do when you miss and have something like AQ on a K74 flop. My default is to always raise weakish leads at me when I'm the PFR. So I need to actually have a hand sometimes. Obv leads mean different things from different players, but a complete unknown I raise until I figure out why the hell he's donking in to me.

This is where the read part comes in. A decent sized donk, and no read it's a fold as this is usually top pair or better I've found. If I think they'll do this with air, or middle or bottom pair, I call and see a turn. Sometimes I raise, but this is usually only after the guy has continually donked into me, so then I can start to punish someone who obviously isn't respecting position.Edit: I actually have to start raising more, so I can raise more often with sets, but I still don't think it's a mistake to call at least 50% of the time in this situation. Pot control > control of hand.People advocating raise, are you betting turn or checking behind if he calls and checks to you?

[tskillz187 0]

This is where the read part comes in. A decent sized donk, and no read it's a fold as this is usually top pair or better I've found. If I think they'll do this with air, or middle or bottom pair, I call and see a turn. Sometimes I raise, but this is usually only after the guy has continually donked into me, so then I can start to punish someone who obviously isn't respecting position.

Yeah, I think what you're doing is fine, we just approach it exactly opposite. I want them to prove to me they understand position and that they donk with real hands (because at lower stakes the default line when hitting a hand is to C/R the PFR) as well. You want them to prove to you that they donk with bad hands. I don't think that's wrong, I just think maybe I'm playing worse players, I get donked into all the time.

[tskillz187 0]

Edit: I actually have to start raising more, so I can raise more often with sets, but I still don't think it's a mistake to call at least 50% of the time in this situation. Pot control > control of hand.People advocating raise, are you betting turn or checking behind if he calls and checks to you?

I bet that turn every single time. I'd probably bet the river too if called, but might find a check, depending on villain.

[Acid_Knight 2]

What do you do when you miss and have something like AQ on a K74 flop. My default is to always raise weakish leads at me when I'm the PFR. So I need to actually have a hand sometimes. Obv leads mean different things from different players, but a complete unknown I raise until I figure out why the hell he's donking in to me.

I agree with this for the most part. I call here sometimes too, but my default is aggression in these spots. I don't want to start calling and letting people know that I have a decent hand that I wanna show down.

[mln_falcon 0]

I bet that turn every single time. I'd probably bet the river too if called, but might find a check, depending on villain.

Yeah this is probably due to the our differing strategies, but if raise that flop, I'm checking the turn and trying to get a loose call on the river. Just because the board is so dry. I probably play it your way on a flushing/straight board.I really think the next thing I need to learn is how to effectively donk, as it's a pretty powerful weapon at the moment.

[pdr87 0]

I think it's pretty weak to raise the flop "for information". He will fold alot of hands that could have given you more value for your hand. And how much is the information really worth against an unknown?Of course, if you *always* raise people who leads into you, you should raise here aswell.