LaydownKing 0 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 OK so I am playing at a pretty good Party Poker 10/20 table, when I am dealt the rockets (A:diamond: A:club:) UTG. I bring it in for a raise, and folded to MP2 who calls, BB calls.The flop comes A:heart: 10 9:club:, and BB bets out. I have the nuts, so I raise to charge anyone who wants to draw, MP2 cold calls, and BB calls.The turn is the 2:spade:, a pretty good card for my hand. BB checks, I bet, MP2 calls again, and BB check-raises me. I still have the nuts so I 3-bet it, MP2 folds, and BB calls.The river is the 8:diamond:. When I see the card I get a sinking feeling becuase I no longer have the nuts. BB checks, I bet, and BB check-raises me. I fold to save the $20, disgusted by what looks like a horrible suckout.I'm not going to post results yet, but I would appreciate any comments on my play. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
Chiggleslap 0 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 OK so I am playing at a pretty good Party Poker 10/20 table, when I am dealt the rockets (A:diamond: A:club:) UTG. I bring it in for a raise, and folded to MP2 who calls, BB calls.The flop comes A:heart: 10 9:club:, and BB bets out. I have the nuts, so I raise to charge anyone who wants to draw, MP2 cold calls, and BB calls.The turn is the 2:spade:, a pretty good card for my hand. BB checks, I bet, MP2 calls again, and BB check-raises me. I still have the nuts so I 3-bet it, MP2 folds, and BB calls.The river is the 8:diamond:. When I see the card I get a sinking feeling becuase I no longer have the nuts. BB checks, I bet, and BB check-raises me. I fold to save the $20, disgusted by what looks like a horrible suckout.I'm not going to post results yet, but I would appreciate any comments on my play. Thanks.Call. Link to post Share on other sites
MasterLJ 0 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Horrible lay down imo.Best article I ever read that improved my limit game so much is calling on the river when you "know," you're beat. In so many situations the pot odds are laying you such large odds to call that you only have to be right a small fraction of the time for the call to be profitable.EDIT: quick review shows 11 big bets in the pot. You only have to be right 1/11 times to make it profitable. You hold the 4th nuts. CALL CALL CALL! Link to post Share on other sites
LaydownKing 0 Posted August 30, 2005 Author Share Posted August 30, 2005 I sort of get what you are saying. But one thing I forgot to mention is that BB looked very confident when he check-raised me. I think this affects my chances of winning, but I'm not sure if it counts enough to make it a fold here. Link to post Share on other sites
Chiggleslap 0 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 I sort of get what you are saying. But one thing I forgot to mention is that BB looked very confident when he check-raised me. I think this affects my chances of winning, but I'm not sure if it counts enough to make it a fold here.Your opponent could be confident holding 10 8 for two pair. But the point is that there is so much money in the pot at this point that you only need to have the best hand a small amount of the time for this call to be correct. Link to post Share on other sites
shinzilla 0 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Yes, sometimes you just gotta lay it down... but that wasn't the time. I don't like your reasoning either. It seems as if one of the main reasons you folded was because you "no longer had the nuts", which is absolutely ridiculous. I hope this post was a joke. Link to post Share on other sites
CavemanDoctor 0 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Horrible horrible fold. I hope you're joking.Your focus on "the nuts" is very weak/passive. You only bet and call with the best hand? Don't make the mistake of making "great laydowns" just to reaffirm to yourself that you're a pro for saving bets. This is especially true in big pots.Your name tells me you probably are one of those players. : / Link to post Share on other sites
Abbaddabba 0 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Wow.Terrible fold.If you fold the 4th nuts to a river checkraise when heads up, you're going to lose to all but the most unobservant players.That was hardly a scare card. Unless you had an incredibly strong read on the player to suggest that he would only raise with the nuts, you made a terrible fold.If I saw you fold that, I would checkraise every single river against you - and if you're willing to fold the 4th nuts, you better believe that I'd be taking down virtually every pot. Link to post Share on other sites
loxo 0 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 I sort of get what you are saying. But one thing I forgot to mention is that BB looked very confident when he check-raised me. I think this affects my chances of winning, but I'm not sure if it counts enough to make it a fold here.I'm having a hard time understanding how he "looked" anything at all. Surely if your playing at 10/20 this is a simple call. A single extra BB on the river when you have been ahead the entire time is an auto call Iwould have thought.Hey I could be wrong though....I dont play 10/20 Link to post Share on other sites
whoomprat 0 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 what kind of line is check-raise, call 3-bet, check-raise?I think this guy was an absolute retard, or he had a great read on OP, knowing he was really weak and had no idea how to play on the river. Link to post Share on other sites
No_Neck 0 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 anything over 10-1 i am calling with all but a busted straight draw. Link to post Share on other sites
dms26 3 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 is this a real post? how does someone look confident on the internet? how do you fold top set in a big heads-up pot? a check-raise on the turn would usually mean a lower set or two pair, maybe if he had the open ended straight flush draw. Folding there is terrible, it seems like you take too much pride in being able to lay down a hand, ala Hellmuth. If nothing else pay to see what kind of hand he check-raises with on the turn in a pot that big. Link to post Share on other sites
jayboogie 0 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Are you kidding me? Do you really think he's check-raising the turn with QJ or some kinda funky straight draw? Anyways, it seems like a joke to me given the OP's handle on here.I would have 3 bet the river for fwiw given the way the BB played his hand. If he does have the straight, well that's great, I'll make more money in the long run when he's building the pot for me on the turn with just a straight draw. Link to post Share on other sites
Swift_Psycho 1 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Terrible fold...just...terrible... Link to post Share on other sites
ol'number7 0 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 is this a real post? how does someone look confident on the internet? how do you fold top set in a big heads-up pot? a check-raise on the turn would usually mean a lower set or two pair, maybe if he had the open ended straight flush draw. Folding there is terrible, it seems like you take too much pride in being able to lay down a hand, ala Hellmuth. If nothing else pay to see what kind of hand he check-raises with on the turn in a pot that big.agreed. Terrible laydown Link to post Share on other sites
Swift_Psycho 1 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 The river is the 8:diamond:. When I see the card I get a sinking feeling becuase I no longer have the nuts.I just want to say BTW, you do realize that any card that isn't the case Ace will make you no longer have the nuts, right? Link to post Share on other sites
WonderfulSplash 0 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 I fold to save the $20, disgusted by what looks like a horrible suckout.How did it look like a horrible suckout??!? His c/r on the turn screems strength, do you think he did that with qj? No reasonable person is playing an OESD like that. Not only should you call, but i would probably 3bet. I also loved how he looked strong at a 10/20 table on PARTY. Looks to me like you should turn your characters off. Link to post Share on other sites
LaydownKing 0 Posted August 30, 2005 Author Share Posted August 30, 2005 OK guys, I made a few mistakes - the table wasn't on Party Poker. I was going to post a different hand and then changed my mind. It took place at the local casino. Also, I don't fold any time I don't have the nuts. But when that card fell I just got a really bad feeling in my gut, and went with it. Link to post Share on other sites
Rman3911 0 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Question to me is...Why the hell is he playing 10-20 and he has no idea about pot odds and paying off in this situation, even if he THINKS he's beat. He must be getting KILLED at these stakes! :shock: Link to post Share on other sites
LaydownKing 0 Posted August 30, 2005 Author Share Posted August 30, 2005 Question to me is...Why the hell is he playing 10-20 and he has no idea about pot odds and paying off in this situation, even if he THINKS he's beat. He must be getting KILLED at these stakes! :shock:Thanks for your arrogant, worthless response. Link to post Share on other sites
AceyDeucy 0 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Very simple:If you are going to lay down to a check-raise on the river, why did you bet? What good could that bet have done you, ESPECIALLY given the action leading up to that.Beyond that, if you are in the habit of laying down a set of aces at the river in LHE, you are leaving TONS of money on the table. The general consensus of "horrible laydown" is correct. Link to post Share on other sites
spaminator 0 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 how do you lay that down you have tremedous odds they are hard pressed to have a straight and have called you on the turnif your not joking you need to quit poker Link to post Share on other sites
CobaltBlue 662 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 "This might be the only time I say this, but that was not a good laydown." Link to post Share on other sites
WonderfulSplash 0 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 So when are you going to tell us that villian had QJ and that you made an excellent laydown? Im sure you thought you were pretty cool folding the fourth nuts :roll: Link to post Share on other sites
LaydownKing 0 Posted August 30, 2005 Author Share Posted August 30, 2005 Very simple:If you are going to lay down to a check-raise on the river, why did you bet?Um, for value. Link to post Share on other sites
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