KQ...it's not that good of a hand...is it?

[wrto4556 0]

Sit-n-Go, you have accumulated alot of chips in the bubble with the blinds at 75/150. You have about 5,600. A small stack who has just lost alot of chips moves all in from the button for 1,600. You have KQo in the BB. What's your move?

[jogsxyz 0]

In the last two WSOP main events more players busted out with KQs and KQo than any other combination. In WSOP 2004 three of the final 15 busted out with KQ. KQ is a lousy hand heads-up. It is only good in limit hold'em with 5-7 players seeing the flop.

[acedude 0]

It really depends on how this player has played throughout, but in general, i would lean towards folding. KQ is not a bad hand, but it does not seem like a good spot to play them here. There is a good chance that he will double up here, and nobody likes to feed the shortstack!

[Smasharoo 0]

What's your move?Call. You're the big stack, it's your job to knock him out on the button.White man's burdon old chum (or whatever your ethnicity is).

[tekn0wledg 0]

I'm gonna call. Need to win a couple of these situations along the way to get a dominant stack. However, there are instances where I would not do this, just depending on other relative stack sizes and how I know that player who moved in to play....

[wrto4556 0]

I would, and did call. Got beat by a set of twos. I kinda figured it as a race, I was the big stack and wanted to knock him out so I could dominate the other two once we were in the money. Continued to lose the next to hands and got knocked out on the bubble!!I raised pocket eights, got re-raised and an A and a Q hit the flop so I folded with my 2,000 remaining chips. Then went all in with AJ to be beat by TT...BTW, I wasn't looking for a call here, should have played the AJ smarter.I'm not sure if I was tilting or if it was just a bad run. I know for sure after the tournament I was on tilt!

[brewzer33 0]

this is a tough one... a read would make this a lot easier... under a normal circumstance against a player with a deeper stack i would fold kq in that spot and wait for a spot where i want to raise but you cannot overlook the fact that this can be either a steal/semi-bluff with low pp or A-rag or that it is a steamraise from a tilting player... also another important factor is that there was no $$$ in the pot aside from the blinds making your pot odds terrible dicatating a fold... IM the call was -ev however it was close... thats y i play limit!! later bud

[BPV 0]

i just went out 28th out of 600ish (i think) people.. and while i did get some money... i wanted the 5k first place prize.. it was another "why did i just do that" moment.. damn. Im tilting.. gonna go drink

[jogsxyz 0]

Even if your opponent were on tilt, he could wake up with a good hand. I would only call if opp's stack was about 5Xbb or smaller. At over 10Xbb assume he has a hand. This of course is based on you not knowing your opp.

[mystery trips 0]

Sit-n-Go, you have accumulated alot of chips in the bubble with the blinds at 75/150. You have about 5,600. A small stack who has just lost alot of chips moves all in from the button for 1,600. You have KQo in the BB. What's your move?

I call that quickly. For all the reasons you guys said, plus I don't want people thinking they can bully me around, I want to let them know I'll protect. As the blinds go up, I want the image that my blinds can't be stolen. So for people who merely talked about the EV, as always, there are other factors.

[Spidurman 0]

odds are that you are slightly behind (small pair or ace with a kicker under yours). If you wanna gamble, its fine.

[rog 0]

What did you read him to have? His stack's not that short. He probably has something. You're behind any pair, and any Ace. The only thing he could possibly go all in with that you have beat is suited connectors or maybe KJ. You're a slight favorite against suited conectors. Add to that the lousy pot odds, and I'd have to say fold. I haven't been playing long enough to really know the value of table image, so I dont know if it's worth that many chips to build your image. Maybe the call was worth it in the long run, but I cant see how you could expect to have the best hand.

[jayistheman 0]

as high stack its a call...its usually tough to make a call like that without an ace or pair though. id be happier to make the call with A8 or A9 than with KQ

[wrto4556 0]

What did you read him to have?  His stack's not that short.  He probably has something.  You're behind any pair, and  any Ace.  The only thing he could possibly go all in with that you have beat is suited connectors or maybe KJ. You're a slight favorite against suited conectors.   Add to that the lousy pot odds, and I'd have to say fold. I haven't been playing long enough to really know the value of table image, so I dont know if it's worth that many chips to build your image.  Maybe the call was worth it in the long run, but I cant see how you could expect  to have the best hand.

It's not just table image, althought that does play a part. Being the big stack, I want to knock out short stacks, especially on the bubble where everyone is playing tight. That way, if I win the pot, I can dominate the other two once we are in the money. Being a big stack, i've called with much much worse. I didn't have that big of a stack here. But the same principal applies. As spidurman said: "It's a gamble." And it is. But being the big stack, I can do that. Hope to get lucky...I would say it's correct to gamble when you're the big stack, but I could have just as easily folded.

[JFarrell20 1]

Fold. KQ is not good. Pot odds here dont dictate a call. Ace anything is ahead of this hand. So is any pair.This is simple. The blinds here are not big enough to warrant calling his huge bet. Too many people think in terms of "knocking others out". Don't do that! That means nothing. Think in terms of winning at a rate higher than that of the chipstack average... If you have more than the average chipstack all the way to the end that means you win. Dont chase a fight with KQ! You said you did and lost to 2's! Don't you see why that was dumb? You counted your chickens before they hatched. You said you wanted to 'get rid of this guy so you could dominate the others'... well it ain't that easy! Just play your game, don't worry about knocking people out and chasing fights! Obviously it was the wrong call b/c you lost, and whats worse, you went out on the bubble! This one is simple, FOLD.

[wrto4556 0]

It's not about pot odds. Pot odds can go out the window in tournament play.

[JFarrell20 1]

It's not about pot odds. Pot odds can go out the window in tournament play.

Apparently so can instincts and common sense.

[wrto4556 0]

My instict was correct. I said it was a coin flip.Do you avoid coin flips when you are the big stack at the table.If so you are a horrible tournament player. My instict was dead on. Common sinse sais to call. You need to read up on tournament play before you open you mouth. You give bad advice and don't listen.

[JFarrell20 1]

My instict was correct. I said it was a coin flip.Do you avoid coin flips when you are the big stack at the table.If so you are a horrible tournament player. My instict was dead on. Common sinse sais to call. You need to read up on tournament play before you open you mouth. You give bad advice and don't listen.

First of all, my post-flop play is so good that I don't need to rely on coin-flips to win tourneys. Watch your mouth, son. You aren't the end-all, be-all of poker. You get your chips your way, I'll get 'em mine. Personally, I try to depend on luck as little as possible. Luck is a big part of tourneys but I like to get my money in with the best hand (and be 'lucky' to have it hold up.)I don't care much for coin flips. If you do, that's cool. It's just not my style, especially if I have a big stack. Why rely on coinflips when you are way ahead of average??? A coinflip IS average, you are AHEAD of average. Keep playing your game and you won't have to rely on coinflips.

[wrto4556 0]

Look, you have to win a few coin flips to win a tourney. Post flop play is ****ed when someone is all in. Why do you think I should fold this? Seriously. I have a great oppertunity to run over the rest of the folks if I win. If I lose, I can accumulate chips like I have been by being the aggressor. I was big stack at the table. I can't think of ONE reason I should fold this. Can you tell me why you would fold this, old man. It seems like an easy call...prove me wrong.

[Smasharoo 0]

You HAVE TO win coinflips to win a tournament.If you don't take a few while your the big stack then you have to take a few when you're the short stack.This is really a pretty easy call IMO.Postflop play becomes meaningless as the blind structure increases in the late stages of a tournamnet. I don't care much for coin flips. If you do, that's cool. It's just not my style, especially if I have a big stack. Why rely on coinflips when you are way ahead of average??? A coinflip IS average, you are AHEAD of average. Keep playing your game and you won't have to rely on coinflips.You either have nevevr actually played in a tournament, or are so stunningly bad at it that you're trying to find some excuse for your poor performance.What you right makes absolutely no sesne. It sounds exactl like someone trying to parrot something someone else wrote about tournament play while not understanding it in the slightest.

[JFarrell20 1]

Why take risks when you are ahead?Simple question. Why take risks when you are ahead?If he folds here, he's still the leader. If he calls and loses, he's lost his lead. If he calls and wins, he's still just the chip leader. It doesnt mean he's won anything. All it means is he's knocked somebody out that is destined to get KO'd soon anyway. There is plenty of room for post-flop play when you are the chip leader. To me, this is obvious. I'm not trying to fight with you guys. I REALLY believe the correct play is fold.So back to my question: "Why take uncalculated risks while you are ahead?" Just answer me that. Now if he has a pair above 7's or A 10 or better I'd say that is not a risk. But KQ off? I just don't get it. I'm not trying to be a jerk here (unlike in other posts. lol.) but I STRONGLY believe I would fold this here.Note: Often times late in tourneys when I'm ahead I will fold marginal pre-flop raises, just to have him push all in on my when I catch QQ or A-10 or better, I call, he's gone. End of story. Sometimes it's good to let people think they can push you around.Plus, everyone is saying "you need to win some coinflips to get 1st in a tourney". Not when you are the chipleader. And not when you are leading this "early". (meaning more than a few ppl left.) If you don't put yourself in the position of calling a coinflip, you don't have to worry about winning it. Now, pushing ALL IN when you are shortstacked with 3-3 and you KNOW it's a coinflip to the Big-Stacked big blind over there, then yes, you have to win this to survive. But he's just not in a position to have to win this one, so why bother? Let the other guy get knocked out through the course of nature. He's down, he ain't gonna last long.

[Smasharoo 0]

1. It's not early, it's on the bubble.2. The guy pushing all in has 10X BB. This means he's correct to push with any hand he'd limp with. Anything. 3. In a SnG if you don't play agressively on the bubble as the big stack, by calling in these situations what happens is the blinds continue to increase, your stack continues to get blinded off and it becomes a COMPLETE crapshoot and you're forced to call with 93o because of the pot sizes. Not calling here indicates a desire to make it more about luck.4. Let me again say you have no idea what you're talking about. Did you read the original post?

[JFarrell20 1]

Yeah I read it, and I still stand firm. You need to win coinflips to win a tourney (but not when your chipleader). You have the option here, to call, or fold, a coinflip. That's what it boils down to. If you are relying on coinflips, it means you are early in the tourney, short stacked, and not in the driver seat. Here, he is clearly in the driver seat. He doesn't have to call a coinflip here. It's OK to fold. What if the opponent did luckily have QQ, KK, or AA? I guarantee you, you would say, "Man, I didn't have to chase that..."3 options:Fold, remain in driver seatCall + win, sitting better, but still just 'leading'. It ain't over yet.Call + lose, not in driver seat anymore. On tilt, because made call didn't have to.I'm sticking with the fold. I've read all the arguments against folding.

[Smasharoo 0]

I'm sticking with the fold. I've read all the arguments against folding.Apparently you didn't understand them.This guy with the short stack is going to push everytime he has any sort of hand at all and continue to steal blinds.When are you going to call him? After he doubles up? After he has enough blinds to hurt you if he wins an all in?