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#1 psujohn

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Posted 04 November 2007 - 07:39 PM

This is a full ring table that's gotten short handed just recently. Villain has been pretty tight and straight forward but that was at a full table. No idea how he'll respond to short handed play.Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (4 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)Button ($45.65)Hero ($56.55)Preflop: Hero is SB with K :D , K :D . 1 fold, Button raises to $2, Hero raises to $5.75, 1 fold, Button calls $3.50.Flop: ($11.75) 3 :club: , Q :D , 3 :D (2 players)Hero bets $9, Button calls $9.Turn: ($29.75) Q :) (2 players)Hero ??Obv not the card I wanted to see. Push? Bet/call? Bet/fold? Check/call? Check/fold?

#2 mtdesmoines

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Posted 04 November 2007 - 08:12 PM

View Postpsujohn, on Sunday, November 4th, 2007, 7:39 PM, said:

Check/fold

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#3 NoSup4U

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Posted 04 November 2007 - 08:47 PM

I'd probably keep betting until he shows me I'm behind. JJ will prob call 2 bets here, as will AK/AJ etc if they're donk enough.Mark

#4 Zach6668

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Posted 04 November 2007 - 09:06 PM

mtdesmoines:kidding, right?
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.

#5 mikeysong

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Posted 04 November 2007 - 09:10 PM

View PostNoSup4U, on Sunday, November 4th, 2007, 8:47 PM, said:

I'd probably keep betting until he shows me I'm behind. JJ will prob call 2 bets here, as will AK/AJ etc if they're donk enough.Mark
mark-anything wrong with a check call here and then making a decision? It's hard but I'm starting ot love these linesbtw, pushing this turn is HORRIBLEyou very rarely inspire a super hero JJ call (lol)

#6 mtdesmoines

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Posted 04 November 2007 - 09:12 PM

View PostZach6668, on Sunday, November 4th, 2007, 9:06 PM, said:

mtdesmoines:kidding, right?
Not really. Put the villain on a hand.
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#7 Zach6668

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Posted 04 November 2007 - 09:20 PM

22-AA, AQ, KQ, big hearts...You are SOOOOOOOOOOOOO scared of monsters dude. It's sickening.
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.

#8 Dictius

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Posted 04 November 2007 - 09:24 PM

I probably bet/fold.

#9 Snamuh

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Posted 04 November 2007 - 09:26 PM

Check/call turn. Check/fold to a large river bet. Villain might bet turn if you check here but I think he'd check behind 88-JJ for showdown value on river.Edit: I just noticed villain only has like 30 behind so this really isn't an option. Sick spot. Check/fold doesn't sound THAT bad because you commit yourself to the pot with really any bet or check/call. I don't have a problem with trying to get to showdown cheap but it seems like that might be difficult.
Snamuh raises to $76.75, and is all in
BigKamp: yyou lose
BigKamp has 15 seconds left to act
BigKamp calls $24.50, and is all in
Seat 1: BigKamp (small blind) mucked [Ad Ac] - a full house, Aces full of Kings
Seat 2: Snamuh (big blind) showed [Kd Kh] and won ($102.50) with four of a kind, Kings
Snamuh: you lose

#10 Zach6668

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Posted 04 November 2007 - 09:29 PM

View PostSnamuh, on Monday, November 5th, 2007, 12:26 AM, said:

Check/call turn. Check/fold to a large river bet. Villain might bet turn if you check here but I think he'd check behind 88-JJ for showdown value on river.
bingo.
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.

#11 Zach6668

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Posted 04 November 2007 - 09:32 PM

View PostDictius, on Monday, November 5th, 2007, 12:24 AM, said:

I probably bet/fold.
Are we expecting TT, JJ type hands to call again?
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.

#12 Dictius

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Posted 04 November 2007 - 09:43 PM

View PostZach6668, on Monday, November 5th, 2007, 4:32 PM, said:

Are we expecting TT, JJ type hands to call again?
If JJ/TT thought they were ahead on the flop, the second Q doesn't change anything except now it's less likely we have a Q.I would expect alot of lower pocket pairs and Aces to call a bet but it would be pretty brave for them to raise.Would you expect JJ/TT to bet on this board? I think any hand we are ahead of would check behind on the turn.

#13 Zach6668

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Posted 04 November 2007 - 09:48 PM

View PostDictius, on Monday, November 5th, 2007, 12:43 AM, said:

If JJ/TT thought they were ahead on the flop, the second Q doesn't change anything except now it's less likely we have a Q.I would expect alot of lower pocket pairs and Aces to call a bet but it would be pretty brave for them to raise.Would you expect JJ/TT to bet on this board? I think any hand we are ahead of would check behind on the turn.
Yeah, I'm not too sure.I could see JJ/TT calling just as much as I could see them betting if checked to. I'm not sure how often an ace calls us down here though.
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.

#14 Dictius

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Posted 04 November 2007 - 09:54 PM

Actually bet/fold sucks. Theres about $30 in the pot and villain only has $30 left, if we bet like $20 are we really going to fold for $10 more?I think check/fold is too weak, so I have no idea what to do lol maybe crai?

#15 Zach6668

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Posted 04 November 2007 - 09:57 PM

oh lol, I didn't even notice stack sizes.With only one PSB left, I'd be bet/calling or c/r'ing ai, I think.I just think c/f is too weak!
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
LETS GO PITTSBURGH
QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Zach is right about pretty much everything.

#16 NoBBiR

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Posted 04 November 2007 - 10:30 PM

I think there isn't anything wrong with a CRAI here since we're going to find it hard to fold this anyway, we'll allow him to stab with worse hands before hammering him, and show a lot of strength and prevent him from calling with just a naked flush draw or something. I don't think this is always AQ, but I guess the times it is they are going to get all of our money for the poker gods delivering us that retarded turn card.
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#17 Royal_Tour

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Posted 05 November 2007 - 12:44 AM

View PostNoSup4U, on Sunday, November 4th, 2007, 9:47 PM, said:

I'd probably keep betting until he shows me I'm behind. JJ will prob call 2 bets here, as will AK/AJ etc if they're donk enough.Mark

View Postmikeysong, on Sunday, November 4th, 2007, 10:10 PM, said:

mark-anything wrong with a check call here and then making a decision? It's hard but I'm starting ot love these linesbtw, pushing this turn is HORRIBLEyou very rarely inspire a super hero JJ call (lol)

View PostSnamuh, on Sunday, November 4th, 2007, 10:26 PM, said:

Check/call turn. Check/fold to a large river bet. Villain might bet turn if you check here but I think he'd check behind 88-JJ for showdown value on river.Edit: I just noticed villain only has like 30 behind so this really isn't an option. Sick spot. Check/fold doesn't sound THAT bad because you commit yourself to the pot with really any bet or check/call. I don't have a problem with trying to get to showdown cheap but it seems like that might be difficult.
I like parts of all of these.1 is we bet again, we fold to a raise. more often than not, even if he has a Q, he'll probably just call the bet, same with a FD and JJ,10,10.2 is that we check to see what villain does. our check can look like a trap as often as it will look like we're scared. 3rd option, we check/raise if he bets. we'll find out exactly how far we are behind with this move.although, like zach said, stacks are kinda lame at this point, so ya. a CR will be committing ourselves



#18 psujohn

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Posted 05 November 2007 - 04:31 AM

View PostZach6668, on Monday, November 5th, 2007, 12:20 AM, said:

22-AA, AQ, KQ, big hearts...
Possibly QJ, QT too since this is only 4 handed at this point.And yes, villain has one pot sized bet left.I tanked on this one. I considered c/f but if I check I think he can shove with pretty much all of his range and we crush most of it. Plus he can check behind with a heart draw. I considered shoving but I don't want to fold his weakest holdings and get instacalled by his strongest.The big problem with betting here is that given stack sizes a bet is almost the same as a push if villain has a clue. If we bet 20 and villain shoves it's only 10 or so more for us to call getting 9:1.After the hand I was struck with the question of whether it's one of those hands where it's better for us to call an all-in than to put villain all-in and be called. In other words will villain shove with a wider range than he'll call with. Minus the heart draw I think I'd prefer a check/call or crai line.

#19 Royal_Tour

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Posted 05 November 2007 - 05:07 AM

View Postpsujohn, on Monday, November 5th, 2007, 5:31 AM, said:

stuff
you hold the K hearts. meaning if he is on some kind of flush draw that he raises / calls with, what type of holding is it?would he raise suited connectors? or would this be AhJh?also, what hands would he raise that flop with? AQ? what about KQ? or would he just flat call with a weak Q like J,Qs etc...1 more question, back to preflop.. whats been the standard pf action at the table? u say he has been pretty standard Tight.so, like i said, what hands is he raising and calling a re-raise with, but not re-poping? would he re-pop QQ? that would be sick if he smooth called preflop with Queens and now has quads.anyways, my point is, without much info this could be a Q or a FD.since we're kinda torn between the various hands, why not check/ see what he doesm if he takes a free card and the flush misses, you can go from there. I think i'm going check/check, on turn and river here and calling any bets on the river. that way he bluffs with missed draws, value bets with a monster, and we hopefully lose the min. when behind, but sacrifice a little ev when ahead.which i dont think is so bad, since the majority of people are soo focused on the EV of hands, they lose sight at minimizing our losses which IMO, is a bigger issue



#20 mtdesmoines

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Posted 05 November 2007 - 05:24 AM

View Postpsujohn, on Monday, November 5th, 2007, 4:31 AM, said:

The big problem with betting here is that given stack sizes a bet is almost the same as a push if villain has a clue. If we bet 20 and villain shoves it's only 10 or so more for us to call getting 9:1.
Exactly.
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