shpaget 0 Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 So, I'm at a 4/8 table and this one guy 3 times in about an hour insists on seeing the losing hand. We'll call him "glasses".All three times the other guy bets on the river, (it was one guy twice, a different guy the other time) and glasses calls. OB folds and chucks his cards.***how this could happen three times I don't know...this guy has established himself as a calling station and you're not going to steal the pot from him on the river.Now, because he was the original bettor and he was called, according to the casino rules, if his cards don't hit the muck the caller has the right to see them.So, technically, the guy is within the rules to see the cards.IMO it's poor etiquette - you've called his bluff, you've won the hand. You don't need to humiliate him too. To me, it's only a shade better than slow rolling the winners.His response - "I want to see what he had, it's my right - I paid to see them."My response - "If you're half as good as you think you are, you know what he had...otherwise, are you just calling on a prayer? You didn't pay to see the cards, you paid for the pot."What I would love to do to him is have the nuts on the river, and when he calls, throw my cards into the middle, but not the muck. When he insists on seeing my cards, it would cost him the pot. But maybe I should just let him be and not be a jerk too. Link to post Share on other sites
JaysonWeber 0 Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 It's rude to do this, Slow's down the game and is relatively annoying, But it's allowed. Link to post Share on other sites
Socrates 0 Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 Actually, anyone dealt in to the hand can ask to see those cards as well, not just those involved in the betting at the end. This is the part that really slows the game down, I've seen a guy in Vegas ask multiple times to see the called mucked hand and each time he had folded preflop. He was either really anal about information, or just being a jerk. Link to post Share on other sites
BETNFOOL 0 Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 So, I'm at a 4/8 table and this one guy 3 times in about an hour insists on seeing the losing hand. We'll call him "glasses".All three times the other guy bets on the river, (it was one guy twice, a different guy the other time) and glasses calls. OB folds and chucks his cards.***how this could happen three times I don't know...this guy has established himself as a calling station and you're not going to steal the pot from him on the river.Now, because he was the original bettor and he was called, according to the casino rules, if his cards don't hit the muck the caller has the right to see them.So, technically, the guy is within the rules to see the cards.IMO it's poor etiquette - you've called his bluff, you've won the hand. You don't need to humiliate him too. To me, it's only a shade better than slow rolling the winners.His response - "I want to see what he had, it's my right - I paid to see them."My response - "If you're half as good as you think you are, you know what he had...otherwise, are you just calling on a prayer? You didn't pay to see the cards, you paid for the pot."What I would love to do to him is have the nuts on the river, and when he calls, throw my cards into the middle, but not the muck. When he insists on seeing my cards, it would cost him the pot. But maybe I should just let him be and not be a jerk too.i have seen this backfire on a guy... just what u wanted to do. the fish did not know he had thrown away the winning hand..... the guy got up and left 1 hand laterlol Link to post Share on other sites
Socrates 0 Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 So, I'm at a 4/8 table and this one guy 3 times in about an hour insists on seeing the losing hand. We'll call him "glasses".All three times the other guy bets on the river, (it was one guy twice, a different guy the other time) and glasses calls. OB folds and chucks his cards.***how this could happen three times I don't know...this guy has established himself as a calling station and you're not going to steal the pot from him on the river.Now, because he was the original bettor and he was called, according to the casino rules, if his cards don't hit the muck the caller has the right to see them.So, technically, the guy is within the rules to see the cards.IMO it's poor etiquette - you've called his bluff, you've won the hand. You don't need to humiliate him too. To me, it's only a shade better than slow rolling the winners.His response - "I want to see what he had, it's my right - I paid to see them."My response - "If you're half as good as you think you are, you know what he had...otherwise, are you just calling on a prayer? You didn't pay to see the cards, you paid for the pot."What I would love to do to him is have the nuts on the river, and when he calls, throw my cards into the middle, but not the muck. When he insists on seeing my cards, it would cost him the pot. But maybe I should just let him be and not be a jerk too.i have seen this backfire on a guy... just what u wanted to do. the fish did not know he had thrown away the winning hand..... the guy got up and left 1 hand laterlolAre you saying they let him win the pot after he showed his mucked cards? Not buying that one, the cards are mucked and dead, you can not win the hand after that. Link to post Share on other sites
Orion071 0 Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 I hate it when people do this because when I muck the nuts after checking it all the way down, these guys get a glimpse of my brilliant strategy... :oops: Link to post Share on other sites
BETNFOOL 0 Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 So, I'm at a 4/8 table and this one guy 3 times in about an hour insists on seeing the losing hand. We'll call him "glasses".All three times the other guy bets on the river, (it was one guy twice, a different guy the other time) and glasses calls. OB folds and chucks his cards.***how this could happen three times I don't know...this guy has established himself as a calling station and you're not going to steal the pot from him on the river.Now, because he was the original bettor and he was called, according to the casino rules, if his cards don't hit the muck the caller has the right to see them.So, technically, the guy is within the rules to see the cards.IMO it's poor etiquette - you've called his bluff, you've won the hand. You don't need to humiliate him too. To me, it's only a shade better than slow rolling the winners.His response - "I want to see what he had, it's my right - I paid to see them."My response - "If you're half as good as you think you are, you know what he had...otherwise, are you just calling on a prayer? You didn't pay to see the cards, you paid for the pot."What I would love to do to him is have the nuts on the river, and when he calls, throw my cards into the middle, but not the muck. When he insists on seeing my cards, it would cost him the pot. But maybe I should just let him be and not be a jerk too.i have seen this backfire on a guy... just what u wanted to do. the fish did not know he had thrown away the winning hand..... the guy got up and left 1 hand laterlolAre you saying they let him win the pot after he showed his mucked cards? Not buying that one, the cards are mucked and dead, you can not win the hand after that.his cards never touched the muck. the dealer turned them over then gave them back to him. it was a 3/6 game in tulsa i can call the casino if u would like. lol Link to post Share on other sites
gadjet 11 Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 agreed if you don't turn the cards over yourself it's a muck...It is well known as poor etiquette but honestly I love it when other people ask to see cards, you get free information on how and why people are calling/betting with losing hands... some of the best info you can get... I just make sure to always chuck mine right into the muck as soon as I know I'm folding... gives people less chance to see what I'm playing ... Link to post Share on other sites
crowTrobot 2 Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 it gave annie duke an excuse to b itch Link to post Share on other sites
shpaget 0 Posted June 21, 2005 Author Share Posted June 21, 2005 Are you saying they let him win the pot after he showed his mucked cards? Not buying that one, the cards are mucked and dead, you can not win the hand after that.Although different casinos may have different rules, in my experience if your cards aren't in the muck they are live (even if you say "I fold" or "take it, Doyle"). Link to post Share on other sites
BSUrugby240 0 Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 agreed if you don't turn the cards over yourself it's a muck... http://www.homepokertourney.com/rules_robe...tm#THE%20BUY-INscroll down to "the showdown" then rule 5. Link to post Share on other sites
gadjet 11 Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 agreed if you don't turn the cards over yourself it's a muck... http://www.homepokertourney.com/rules_robe...tm#THE%20BUY-INscroll down to "the showdown" then rule 5.Not the ultimate authority of poker rule sites, but interesting, I've never heard that... Link to post Share on other sites
Dizzyg8r 0 Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 I don't find this as annoying if the person asking to see the hand called it on the river. Those people who weren't in the hand on the river and ask to see mucked cards are who really get under my nerves. I find they generally stop that practice when you ask to see their cards like 5 hands in a row.Also, technically, isn't the person who was the initial bettor and is called on the river supposed to show his hand first? Link to post Share on other sites
BSUrugby240 0 Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 agreed if you don't turn the cards over yourself it's a muck... http://www.homepokertourney.com/rules_robe...tm#THE%20BUY-INscroll down to "the showdown" then rule 5.Not the ultimate authority of poker rule sites, but interesting, I've never heard that...I was under the impression that "Robert's Rules" rulebook was pretty much the authority of poker rules.Am I under the wrong impression? Link to post Share on other sites
Socrates 0 Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 Are you saying they let him win the pot after he showed his mucked cards? Not buying that one, the cards are mucked and dead, you can not win the hand after that.Although different casinos may have different rules, in my experience if your cards aren't in the muck they are live (even if you say "I fold" or "take it, Doyle").Your cards are usually dead once they are unprotected and are sent towards the dealer. As for saying that "you fold" not being a binding action, how can that be, that's like saying "call" and then raising, you can't do it.I will agree that some casinos (generally a dealer) has a different set of rules now and again, they usually just don't know the game that well. This was a big issue at the WSOP, so many dealers and so many different rules for certain situations. Link to post Share on other sites
....Ian.... 0 Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 i do it to a) see what the guy had and B) more importantly it pisses others off (as shown above) which makes them try really hard to bust me in a hand later on. it works...they go broke sonn after Link to post Share on other sites
tightmike 0 Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 Ok, I had to respond to this thread because this is one of the issues that REALLY cheeses me off playing poker.Asking to see another man's hand if he has mucked it or intends to muck it is the same as calling that man a cheater. YES, you have the right to ask to see the losing hand, it's in the rules, but the reasoning behind the rule is collusion not INFORMATION.I personally hate it when people do this. I do get mad. I do not go after this person like ....Ian.... said and go broke though. By him asking to see that hand, I already know that he isn't very good. Like the OP said, you are paying for the pot, not the other guys cards.I get upset and irrate at this rule being abused. I am generally the a$$hole of the table, I make it a point to be, it's my style in this game we love. So when somebody does this, I crank up the a$$hole meter on them. There you go, my two cents. Link to post Share on other sites
princeof56k 0 Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 If someone bets and I call on the river, he is supposed to act first. If he chooses to muck first before I show my cards (although I dont know why anyone would do this), then I just let it go and take down the pot. But many times I have seen the original bettor sit there and wait for the caller to show first (because many callers will show first and he doesnt have to show if hes beat). I dont put up with that. I've actually told dealer (while me and the bettor were in a stare down after betting completed), "I called. He either needs to show first or muck." The dealer will then instruct him to act first. Link to post Share on other sites
dscoot 0 Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 i actually was thinking hard about this rule recently . i am playing in the big event in a few weeks, and thght to myself, "i should just be a dick to the table and ask to see the mucked cards everyhand" a/ it might put the people on tilt, which will help me in the long runb/ it might slow some people down from drawing out on me or bluffing mec/ the information received about what hands they are playing and how often they bluff is so valuable, its almost crazy not to ask---- i realize i would come off as a total dick to everyone at my table, hell my unconvential play might get me mentioned on espn, if i dont do well enough with my cards to get on tv anyway, but i was thinking, its a total jerk move, but i didnt make the rules.... just playin by em, ya know?i probly wont do this in the main event, but perhaps if i get a good enough buzz i may flirt with the idea out there. i mean we are gonna be playing for like a 60 or 80 million prize pool, shouldnt we take every possible advantage we can get? Link to post Share on other sites
princeof56k 0 Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 i actually was thinking hard about this rule recently . i am playing in the big event in a few weeks, and thght to myself, "i should just be a dick to the table and ask to see the mucked cards everyhand"You do that and its only a matter of time before you get your ass kicked. Link to post Share on other sites
bdams19 0 Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 I agree with the above poster. One thing I cannot stand is when two people are in a hand and on the river one bets, and then one calls and they go you first for LIKE FIVE MINUTES BEFORE ANYONE SHOWS A HAND. You were called, flip your cards over, it's that simple. In a large pot though, if someone tries to muck I'll ask to see their hand to see if that person has the balls to bluff in that situation, etc. However, I was at Turning Stone Casino once, I sit down at the 2/5 table and my first hand UTG and get dealt A A . I make it 25 to go and get 4 callers, and then the BB makes it 75 to go. I go into the tank (it was my first hand at the table!) and then declare I'm all in for what remained of my 200 buy in. Everyone folds to the BB, who quickly calls. He asks if I want to flip them, and before I say anythign the dealer tells me I don't have to. At this point I could obviously care less, I just got the BB to push all in into me when he's prob got AK or something. So the flop is dealt, 2 8 T, and the BB stands up and throws his cards onto the table face up, showing T8o. I almost puked in my mouth it was so disgusting. The turn and river gave me no help (I wished so badly for that duece to pair), and the dealer asked if I could beat that, so I muck immediately (no one has to see my aces here, I'm a loose cannon going all in on the first hand I play right?). My cards are in the muck, and the BB asks to see them and I tell the dealer they are mucked already. The dealer then REACHES INTO THE MUCK and flips over my black aces for the whole table to see. I was already pissed off from that ridiculous beat (TEN EIGHT FOR CRYING OUT LOUD), so you could imagine how I felt when she did this. I asked her what she was doing taking cards out of the muck to which she had no reply. I called the floor over and requested a dealer change and explained what happened and bought back in, and that same person who called my all in with T8os doubled me up 3 hands later with his QJ vs my AQ on a Q high flop.Needless to say, things like this piss me off. Players should know the rules, but dealers especially shouldn't be effing up that badly. I'm usually a pretty even keel guy even with the bad beats, so it's not like I lose my temper often. Link to post Share on other sites
grittybones 0 Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 You know what would really piss me off? If I was trying to Condition a guy, and he then got to see my stone-cold nuts after I mucked them. This rule should be done away with immediately, if only to allow the superior players to properly execute a "trap/fold" strategy. Link to post Share on other sites
gadjet 11 Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 looks like asking to see cards may be a good way to put you all on tilt ... lol... maybe I should start trying it... ask to see the cards and then juice you... Link to post Share on other sites
Rock Crawler 0 Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 You know what would really censored me off? If I was trying to Condition a guy, and he then got to see my stone-cold nuts after I mucked them. This rule should be done away with immediately, if only to allow the superior players to properly execute a "trap/fold" strategy. :clap: Too funny Link to post Share on other sites
Bubba83 0 Posted June 21, 2005 Share Posted June 21, 2005 I have a rather different feeling on this. If you get called down, you should just show right away, this way no time will be wasted from anyone asking. I do not mind anyone who asks to see the hand because they called so that they could see what you had and learn from it. I also hate when the winner shows 1 card and the other guy mucks, I can learn a lot from a player even if I only see their kicker, or maybe they even had 2 pair, It's not right to not flip up both of your cards if you have been called on the river. Link to post Share on other sites
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