bad beat etiquette

[jasjet 0]

Hey guys. I was recently listening to Phil Gordon's podcast from the WSOP. He was at the final table at the $1000 NL Hold'em Rebuy event with two Aces in the SB. David Phan raises on the button, Phil deceides to reraise with his aces and Phan goes over the top all-in. Easy call obviously. Phan turns over pocket tens and sucks Phil out on the turn with a 10, knocking Phil out of the tournament and destorying Phil's deam of getting his first bracelet.Now, I've been playing pocket for 2 years now, I'm no expert but I always trying to improve my game. I can say that I'm probably one of the best players at my home game. It seems that as I improve my poker skills that I experience more and more bad beats. Logically it makes sense that as you get better at poker you'll experience bad beats more often. I hate bad beats and I always make a fuss. It's just a horrible feeling to get sucked out by a crappy player who makes a bad call and gets lucky. What's worst is that I often get knocked out when we're heads up and in our home tournaments, stupidly, we do not pay 2nd place.One thing i'm realizing is that I shouldn't be playing poker if I can't take a bad beat. I should go out and play chess or any other game where luck is not involved. I watch WPT or WSOP and I cringe when I see Phil Helmuth berate players when he gets sucked out... yet I do the same thing. I understand the feeling, you feel as if that player has done something personally against you. That he pulled that miracle 1o on the river and it's his fault. He wants to hurt you. But this isn't true. I shouldn't be playing poker with this attitude, espeically amongst friends. So now I'm trying to learn to be calm at the table and just realize that I'm playing poker and I have to deal with bad luck. All I can do is play the best poker I can. How do you guys deal with bad beats? Do you react calmly or do you raise you fists in anger and yell at percentages???!!! :twisted:

[CamelVic 0]

Usually (later), when I'm passed that "icky" feeling, I go outside and help them change their four flat tires.

[jasjet 0]

LOL. You should then say, "Wow, 4 flat tires! What a bad beat!"

[HangukMiguk 8]

i've just been so frustrated recently that i have been yellingit's time to get my emotions in check.anybody got any good techniques that they use to keep calm on the suck-outs? or does it just come natural to you guys?

[Bigmoney 0]

I look him in the eye and say that's OK then I go an bang his sister...It really doesn't bug me too much unless the guy who sucked out actually thinks he made a good play or that he's a great poker player because of it. Then I get a agitated and berade them relentlessly, then I go bang his sister.

[Briguy 0]

i've just been so frustrated recently that i have been yellingit's time to get my emotions in check.anybody got any good techniques that they use to keep calm on the suck-outs? or does it just come natural to you guys?

It comes natural to me, live. I've seen so many bad beats, that I just say "good hand", and wait for my next chance to allow bad players to pay me.Online, I can be more primal. A screaming fit, perhaps a punch of the screen (not recommended if you have a flatscreen, BTW), all outside of the earshot and eyesight of my admiring public.

[Incubus77546 0]

The more and more you play poker... the more you gain a tolerancy of dealing with bad beats. I used to get mad (and still do sometimes) but not really mad. I would say stuff like "Nice river" in a sarcastic way. But I realized what I was doing was wrong so over to course of some time now when I recieve a Bad Beat I just take one big breath and realize if it hasnt knocked me outta the tournament I still gotta chance. So just go on and keep playing poker and realize you will ALWAYS recieve Bad Beats throughout your ENTIRE poker career. And if you cant handle the Bad Beats either quit... or pull a Hellmuth and "throw" a chair.(Im a Hellmuth fan so feck off if you think Ima hater!)

[Bohunkas 0]

I'm trying to learn about how to bet to minimize the effect of bad beats. I wouldn't say Phil Gordon wasn't correct to push with aces... but if I was the one with TT, I would I think a little harder before calling a bet like that, more than I used to. Especially in a tournament... even aces have about a 20% chance of getting cracked, or >20% if more than two players are in the hand. It's gonna happen eventually. If you're not all-in when it happens, you're still alive.

[holman3rd 0]

Logically it makes sense that as you get better at poker you'll experience bad beats more often.

Why do you think this? Typically, as you get better you move up in limits and bad beat frequency goes down b/c players tend to make less mistakes.Sklansky briefly mentions this near the beginning of SSHE.

[garamond10pt 0]

Logically it makes sense that as you get better at poker you'll experience bad beats more often.

Why do you think this? Typically, as you get better you move up in limits and bad beat frequency goes down b/c players tend to make less mistakes.Sklansky briefly mentions this near the beginning of SSHE.

The better poker players get their money in as a favorite more often. More often the favorite means more opportunities for bad beats.

[joker12676 0]

I try not to say anything but sometimes I can't help my self. It doesn't help much, if they are any good they know it was a bad play. If they suck, if your lucky they don't care and ignore you, but even worse they could improve their game.

[zimmer4141 0]

I'm trying to learn about how to bet to minimize the effect of bad beats. I wouldn't say Phil Gordon wasn't correct to push with aces... but if I was the one with TT, I would I think a little harder before calling a bet like that, more than I used to. Especially in a tournament... even aces have about a 20% chance of getting cracked, or >20% if more than two players are in the hand. It's gonna happen eventually. If you're not all-in when it happens, you're still alive.

No, the hand wasPham with 10 10 on the button raises to 45,000Phil in BB with AA reraises to 120,000Pham thinks he is on a resteal and reraises all inPhil immediately callsFlop came rag rag ragTurn was a 10 and Phil was out.

[holman3rd 0]

Logically it makes sense that as you get better at poker you'll experience bad beats more often.

Why do you think this? Typically, as you get better you move up in limits and bad beat frequency goes down b/c players tend to make less mistakes.Sklansky briefly mentions this near the beginning of SSHE.

The better poker players get their money in as a favorite more often. More often the favorite means more opportunities for bad beats.

This doesn't make any sense. The higher up you go, the higher % of good players at your table (in general). If you're good and you're opponents are good too, you can't both be getting your money in as a favorite more often.But, perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you're saying. We may be on the same page. The lower you play, the higher % of bad players. As you improve, but continue to play at the same level, you do get your money in more often with the best hand. I guess my assumption that you move up in levels as you improve is what's confusing the original comment. Sorry if that's the case.Is this making any sense?

[bdams19 0]

I take bad beats in stride now, however, when I'm playing online I flip out all the time when I take bad beats. When I'm playing live at a home game or at a B&M, I never let them get to me (and I have taken runner runner 1 outers like you wouldnt believe). But when I'm online and flop a set and someone calls an all in with a gutshot and rivers me for a monster pot, it's just so easy to get pissed off when you're in your own home. I've been known to let out a loud shriek or bang something or clap my hands really loudly, but it's kinda funny, cause whenever I do now even my parents say to me "Oh geez, how'd you get sucked out this time..."

[fatmanonguitar 0]

Logically it makes sense that as you get better at poker you'll experience bad beats more often.  

Why do you think this? Typically, as you get better you move up in limits and bad beat frequency goes down b/c players tend to make less mistakes.Sklansky briefly mentions this near the beginning of SSHE.

The better poker players get their money in as a favorite more often. More often the favorite means more opportunities for bad beats.

This doesn't make any sense. The higher up you go, the higher % of good players at your table (in general). If you're good and you're opponents are good too, you can't both be getting your money in as a favorite more often.But, perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you're saying. We may be on the same page. The lower you play, the higher % of bad players. As you improve, but continue to play at the same level, you do get your money in more often with the best hand. I guess my assumption that you move up in levels as you improve is what's confusing the original comment. Sorry if that's the case.Is this making any sense?

In lower limits, there are more people chasing draws without correct pot odds, hence more suckouts/bad beats.That being said, most of the time you will win with your money in as the favorite but no-one remembers those hands!

[Guest]

It definitely sucks to get... sucked out on, but you HAVE to put it behind you immediately or it will potentially dork you over on later hands when you "revenge bet" or something silly like that.The way I handle it is first tell that to myself right when the beat happens. Then, I compliment the player on an "excellent play" and tell him he's got rocks twice as big as mine to make such a gutsy call/bet. I want that guy to make those crazy bets all day long. It's a good idea to remove EVERY SINGLE DROP of sarcasm from your voice when you say it too! LMAO. In B&M games, immediately complimenting the play will SOMETIMES shut up the freakin' "Poker Instructors" at the table that feel compelled to help everyone at the table improve their game. In my opinion, those jackasses are more trouble than the bad beat masters.Xomby

[Miss J 0]

oddly enough, when i was a kid i used to spazz the **** out when i would lose at anything. now with poker i can conatin those emotions and just deal with it. no offense but i cant stand poor losers. especially adults, when i see it on tv and the players just walk away wihtout shaking hands with the person who took them out, its just sad.

[Steppin Razor 0]

Why do you think this? Typically, as you get better you move up in limits and bad beat frequency goes down b/c players tend to make less mistakes.

If you get better as a player, there's no need to play better opponents. If you're the only good player at a table, you make out like a bandit (but have plenty of bad beat chances).I get upset at bad beats sometimes, but not at the player who sucked out one me. Unless (at a home game) he was dealing from the bottom of the deck. If my opponent didn't deal the cards, it's not his fault he won. I get mad at the Universe. But not for long, it's bigger than I am. I try to think about the next hand I'm going to get a situation like that again, and all the money I'm gonna make because the guy thinks he's got a good chance at sucking out (after all, it happened once already).And we may not remember all the times, but we've all hit backdoor flushes and straights.my .02

[MilesZS 0]

I'm trying to learn about how to bet to minimize the effect of bad beats.  I wouldn't say Phil Gordon wasn't correct to push with aces... but if I was the one with TT, I would I think a little harder before calling a bet like that, more than I used to.   Especially in a tournament... even aces have about a 20% chance of getting cracked, or >20% if more than two players are in the hand.  It's gonna happen eventually.  If you're not all-in when it happens, you're still alive.

You can't play scared poker. You'll lose constantly if you start worrying about bad beats during play. Worry about it after the money is in. You WANT to be the favorite when the money is in. You WANT them to have to call all their money off as a dog. Just because bad beats feel like a kick to the nuts doesn't mean you should play scared all the time. Take your kick to the nuts like a man.

[fatmanonguitar 0]

Is that a Peter Tosh reference? If so, I love that tune.

[closetwin 0]

I've studied greatness, and greatness doesn't put up a fuss.Basically, I sit, and I watch the cards, and if I lose, that's that. I've put beats on others. Everytime I've been all-in and behind, I've begged the gods for a bad beat. Sometimes it came. I don't fuss about it either way, that's childish.I remember an old RGP sig went something like:"I stood on the Dublin docks, and my future was uncertain in a place where fortunes were won and lost on the dealing of a hand."That's the essence of poker. Uncertain.CT

[vgsgeek 0]

I have a buddy who is a decent poker player and we were having a conversation of getting drawn out on with amazingly lucky river cards. He was saying that he gets drawn out on WAY more than he ever draws out on other players. I tried to explain that as a good poker player, you should be getting your money in with the best of it more often than not, so, the amount of times you need to draw out is far less than the other player.

[PT0077 0]

I was a spaz like this at times as well. (Really only when I get knocked out of the tournament) I get my money in as a 70-80% favorite in my home game and I would throw chips when I lost. Well, it has gotten better with the more hands I play. Especially after two weeks ago when I had the variance bug hit big time and my Aces get cracked by AJ on a K83 flop. When that beat happened, I went through about 7 sngs where I got it in more than 70% favorite and lost them all in the same night. After that week, I took a couple of days off and realized that it happens. I looked at all the hands I was playing and realized, "I'm playing well, but luck is part of the game." On Saturday, I had another home game and the girl in first position limps with AK, I push with Aces and she called. When the Q hit the river to complete the straight, I just said good hand. (A couple of friends looked at me like they didn't know who I was). You learn to take them in stride. It just takes a while.

[Steppin Razor 0]

Is that a Peter Tosh reference? If so, I love that tune.

Yes. It's my favorite Tosh song. Although it was actually written by a guy named Joe Higgs, who was an established reggae artist when the Wailers were getting started.

[Socrates 0]

What's a bad beat?After some years of playing and actually becoming a good player, you'll learn that you're really only losing the hand just like you do others. I'm indifferent to what kind of beat it is now, especially since there is no such thing as a "good beat" is there?