Help Playing Aj

[beans422 0]

Say I raise with AJ and get 3 bet behind me by good player and I call. I'm having trouble finding the best way to play this hand on the flop, I usually put good players on 1 of 3 things when they 3 bet....1. High pair2. Mid pair3. Better AceWhat's the best course of action if the flop comes dry? Bet/f? C/f? C/r?What if flop comes K 10 2 .... how would you play it most of the time in this situation? Is c/r a losing play over the long run against the good player?Thanks for the help.

[TheCinciKid 0]

Generally, if it's a heads-up pot against an unknown and I don't flop anything I'm probably going to check/fold in this spot. Weak/tight? Maybe, but you could also potentially spew a ton of bets by trying to get fancy. I believe that sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.

[Knight_Owl 0]

yes, indeed. check/fold in this spot. And are you playing A-J in EP?

[Actuary 3]

c/f'ing a gut shot in a 7SB pot HU isn't weak tight, it's just horrible limit poker.c/c, and re-evaluate on turn

[antistuff 0]

unless you see him threebetting a lot give him credit and let him have it. this is a wonderfull place to spew for absolutly no good reason.

yes, indeed. check/fold in this spot. And are you playing A-J in EP?

are you implying that youre not?

[Actuary 3]

unless you see him threebetting a lot give him credit and let him have it. this is a wonderfull place to spew for absolutly no good reason.

don't tell me you play AJ from EP and check-fold on a KTx flop heads up?

[Knight_Owl 0]

unless you see him threebetting a lot give him credit and let him have it. this is a wonderfull place to spew for absolutly no good reason. are you implying that youre not?

Yes, I'm implying that I muck A-J from EP. Obviously you play it from EP correct?Eitherway everyone has there own method in proceeding the game. Given the description above the OP stated that the player that orignally raised pre-flop was a good TAG player. Lets say we do hit an A or the turn for K-10-A this TAG player could easily have AK,KK, AQ 10-10 or JJ. Just the way I'll approach with this hand, and this particular situation.gl 2 u!

[antistuff 0]

don't tell me you play AJ from EP and check-fold on a KTx flop heads up?

of course not with that much in the pot. i was saying in general when you make a raise like that preflop and get threebet dont try to play games you flop something you play or you fold.

Yes, I'm implying that I muck A-J from EP. Obviously you play it from EP correct?Eitherway everyone has there own method in proceeding the game. Given the description above the OP stated that the player that orignally raised pre-flop was a good TAG player. Lets say we do hit an A or the turn for K-10-A this TAG player could easily have AK,KK, AQ 10-10 or JJ. Just the way I'll approach with this hand, and this particular situation.gl 2 u!

yea i do. if i hit an ace on that turn i would play possum. i would check/call down. if the turn checked through i might bet the river. everybodys got thier own style but i cant imagine folding aj from even utg. or a10o or kqo for that matter. and i feel i play too tight (18/9/2.5ish). ----------------------------------this is hijacking the OPs thread though. if you want to make a new thread about raising marginial hands preflop from EP ill be glad to explain to you my thoughts and happy to listen to yours.

[beans422 0]

I do play AJ utg .... I play at a 9 max table and half of the players aren't tricky. I open raise with a wide variety of hands and usually the other players only continue if they hit which allows me to play more hands.But as for K 10 x flop.... I usually c/r the TAG player, and I'm starting to think it may be a losing play. I get a fold if he has midpair, and 3 bet if against AK ... I may be able to fold out QQ or AQ on turn but I'm sure sometimes he'll raise the turn on a read. So I guess c/c flop and reevaluate turn is a better option.Also I'd be happy to hear you're thoughts on raising with marginal hands from EP in this thread.

[CoranMoran 0]

What if flop comes K 10 2 .... how would you play it most of the time in this situation? Is c/r a losing play over the long run against the good player?

A check-raise here is difficult to pull off.The argument has been made that you can't fold this raised pot with your Gut Shot.So the same case can be made for Villain.Which means that if he has any piece, then your check-raise will not shake him.And "any piece" refers to a whole lot of hands that he could have 3bet with preflop.So since you are unlikely to win this pot immediately on the flop with a check-raise, you would then need to continue to bluff at it on later streets.And this is when it starts becoming clear that you are likely spewing out of position.Without a specific read on Villain, I would likely play this hand passively.--cm

[MR_BIZKITZ 0]

easy fold imo

[Zach6668 513]

Ok. If you have to question how to play a KTx flop, don't play AJo utg.If you are good postflop, then play AJo utg.If you are 3-bet, and get that KTx flop, then c/c, and fold the turn UI.If the flop comes 952r, then take a look at how often you think your overs are good, usually we can peel one and see, but we probably have less than 6 full outs, usually more like 3.And so on.Just proceed with caution. I wouldn't go crazy if the flop was A49r or anything either. Actually, that's probably the hardest flop to play. There's a case to be made for leading out, calling a raise and calling down, or c/r'ing, but the the issue of what to do with a 3 bet comes into play, we should usually call the 3-bet and fold the turn, in that case, if we believe him. Or, if we get a call when we c/r, and he raises you on a blank turn, again, we should probably fold. Or, if a king or queen hit the turn, and he raises, again we should probably fold.Basically, you have to assess each situation differently, depending on the player and flop texture, etc.Also, same thing goes for ATo, and KQo utg. If you can play postflop, play them. If you can't, muck them.- Zach

[NWNewell 0]

check/raise is a losing play.Against a 3-bettor, all you are usually going to do is slow down a better hand that will end up calling down, and chace out a hand that probably would have folded to a bet anyway. And your drawing odds are nowhere close to bailing you out of that play.I don't think a middle pair is typically going to 3-bet an EP raiser, unless they are a very light raiser, but this is not standard (maybe 99). Without a strong read, I'm putting my money on AA-TT, AK, AQs.I'll call with 5:1 preflop odds, and if I don't see a J-high flop, I'm probably c/f as a standard, deviations from that depend on strong reads.Plus, any hand you would raise/call with from EP, doesn't appear to have hit big with that flop. A monster hand that warrents a c/r doesn't make sence (maybe TTT). A good player will sniff this out as a semi-bluff or trying to protect a vulnerable hand. And if it is a bad or weak player, the first statement above applies.You can also think of it this way if you want to look at the numbers. If he would 3-bet with AA-TT, AK, AQs, you are behind in every case, your check raise needs to get him give up his hand to win, or improve while drawing to probably 5 outs. You may be able to convince him that you have a King and to lay down a weaker hand QQ, JJ, AQs, half the time. But he is only going to hold QQ,JJ, or AQs 36% of the time, and if he folds it even more than half the time, that is only 20% of the time you are going to pick up the pot. 4:1 odds to win verses 4:1 Pot Odds. Even money if you look at an optomistic 20% fold rate. Now with your 5 outs, you winning odds would be more like 3.6:1. +EV, but, we've got reverse implied odds. If you figure... when you are ahead against his 3-bet range (or can convince him you are ahead), he will probably fold (and you won't gain many more bets), or it will cost you another bluff on the turn (making your odds worse), and the fact that the rest of the time you could easily get 3-bet on the flop or slowplay/raised on the turn (again, making your odds worse), this is definitely not a +EV play.PS This is why I rarely raise AJo from EP.

c/f'ing a gut shot in a 7SB pot HU isn't weak tight, it's just horrible limit poker.c/c, and re-evaluate on turn

Actuary, why?I totally disagree (with your statement that is is horrible limit poker)I'm not c/f'ing as a follow up action to EP raise because I only have a gutshot with only 7SB. But because of the relative strength shown by someone 3-betting a EP Raiser.What is he 3-betting an EP raiser with (talking about standard play, no reads)?I would think not too much more than AA-TT, AK, and maybe AQs. And with that board we are not ahead of anything. We've got 7SB in the pot. As I said, I think we are behind and only have 5 outs at best. Gutshot, and some small value from the Ace (actually, against that range, an Ace only helps out 27% of the time, against QQ & JJ. 27% of 3 full outs is actually less than 1 out, so 5 outs is even optomistic), a Jack does nothing for you against that range. so we are 8:1 to c/c call with 9.5:1 to win, -EV. But with implied odds, you get there. HOWEVER , with most of these many hands in this range, he has fair redraws to win (if you hit your straight, he could have a set 27% of the time with 18% chance to hit a fullhouse, or a straight draw), so even when you do hit the turn, you could still lose as much as 10% of the time on the river (and when this happens, it will be very costly).I'm not saying that this is + or - EV (I do think this is boarderline at best). But what I am saying is that c/f'ing this spot, as a standard, is NOT horrible limit poker. I wouldn't even call it weak. I think this is a marginal situation at best. I don't hate c/c'ing, but I have very little problem c/f'ing as a standard either. I would think we have to let our read dictate which way we sould go on this one. c/c a light/agg raiser, c/f a tigher raiser. I have no problem defaulting to c/f without a read, it is marginal and will provide less varience.