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Playing From the Short Stack (SNG)


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Just curious as to what type's of cards you look to play pre flop when your the short stack. For instance say you have 5XBB left with 5 players total at the table(including yourself). Do you attempt an all in with garbage hoping to steal the blinds. I imagine this would depend on position and the type of reads you have on the other player (can be difficult online). Or are you strictly waiting for any pocket pair, two high cards, or anything suited? Or just an ace maybe? Myself personally anytime I get down to 5XBB I'm looking for a hand to move all-in with, I don't limp in to see a flop. Lately it seems like I just can't catch any cards when I get down to this point. Just curious how everyone else plays it.Thanks for the inputDuff Man

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Just curious as to what type's of cards you  look to play pre flop when your the short stack.  For instance say you have 5XBB left with 5 players total at the table(including yourself).  Do you attempt an all in with garbage hoping to steal the blinds.  I imagine this would depend on position and the type of reads you have on the other player (can be difficult online).  Or are you strictly waiting for any pocket pair, two high cards, or anything suited?  Or just an ace maybe?  Myself personally anytime I get down to 5XBB I'm looking for a hand to move all-in with, I don't limp in to see a flop.  Lately it seems like I just can't catch any cards when I get down to this point.  Just curious how everyone else plays it.Thanks for the inputDuff Man
It depends on if I have enough to scare the other players out. If they have huge stacks and an all in bet won't get them out on something marginal, Ill wait for a big hand as long as I can. But If I ahve enough to where i can steal the blinds and a called bet, Ill usually go in with just an ace/rag or a small pair. Obviously it also depends on If the pot has been raised before it gets to me though.
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First off, start looking to go all in with about 10xbb. 5xbb isn't going to scare too many people, and if you double up, you didn't get very far. Any tournament, wether it be sng or multi-table, start looking to move all in with 10xbb.

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Ya, 10xBB is good to start looking for cards to push with.If I have enough chips and the players are playing tight enough, then sometimes I will try to pick up a few pots by going all-in with hands that I definetly don't want to be called with (only problem with this is whenever I do it, the big blind ALWAYS picks up AK, AQ, KK...).What I look for to push with, usually depends on how far away the blinds are, and if I think I can make it one more round through the blinds. If I have 8-10 BB then I am usually looking to push with high cards, preferably suited, or some mid-high pocket pairs. With <7 BB I will usually push with any Axs, 89s, 9Ts, and any pocket pair. If I am under 5BB then any ace is getting my chips inThis changes with certain situations (like everything in poker), but for the most part that is basically what I follow

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I like wrto's point here. If you wait too long you aren't going to scare anyone away. This goes for regular tournaments, S&Gs and cash games. So you need to make your move before you are too low on totem pole.However, let's say you lose a big hand and are now severely short stacked, at this point you can play pretty much anything becuase someone is going to call you either way. I like moving with suited connectors and Axs and Kx2 in these situations.

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There are two prime reasons that you should never let your stack get too low.1) Opponents will call you with anything. They realize that you are desperate and will have to play less than premium hands. And calling your all-in won't significantly affect their chip stack. Becasue of this, you have no chance of winning the blinds for free. And with so many people in the pot, your chances of winding up with the best hand are slim.2) Even if you are fortunate enough to double up, it's not really going to matter since you will still be the short stack on the table.The "danger point" is typically considered 10x the big blind. And once you reach this point, you need to take force the action.Because of this, I like to be very aggressive with my short stack. I will usually move all in with any ace or small pair. And if I am in late position with few people in the pot and no raisers, I may move in with a king. One tactic that I use if I am in the blinds myself is to allow the flop to be seen knowing that I will be the first to act after the flop. And if the cards on the board are low (and probably unhelpful to others), I will move all-in representing a set or two pair. However you want to play it, be aggressive an allow yourself a chance to get lucky.Wait too long and you will dig yourself a hole that luck can't even pull you out of.--cnm

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If I get down to 10xBB I move all in with any 2 cards over 10, mid suited connectors, and any Ace. If I fall below 10xbb or I am one of the blinds I like to move in with any K. At that point even a Q-6,7-10 or J-7 are good enough for me. I never fall below 7bb. I will move in with 2-7 or any other hand at that point.

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I don't feel at all desperate at 10x the bb, unless the blinds are due to go up in the next circuit. 6x the bb with no antes and 5x the bb with antes are auto all ins, but more than that I think I can get more out of most hands playing normally. The exceptions would be AA, KK, QQ where I will represent desperation with an all in, not AK, since small pairs will call an apparent desperation play.

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Sklansky argues that conventional wisdom which says you HAVE to get all-in before the flop when you're 4x, 5x, or 10x (or whatever x) the big blind is absolutely wrong. His point is that when you're to the point where you'll have to be all in, you'll get to see all 5 cards for a discount, which is to your advantage. You can afford to wait for a really good spot as opposed to going all-in with a mediocre hand when you're 10x the bb.

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Sklansky argues that conventional wisdom which says you HAVE to get all-in before the flop when you're 4x, 5x, or 10x (or whatever x) the big blind is absolutely wrong.  His point is that when you're to the point where you'll have to be all in, you'll get to see all 5 cards for a discount, which is to your advantage.  You can afford to wait for a really good spot as opposed to going all-in with a mediocre hand when you're 10x the bb.
I havent read the Tournament Poker book, but my vague recollection is you are only half right about what DS says. Yes, being all in is an advantage because you see all 5 cards whereas you might fold prematurely if you try to play the hand normally. I don't think he disagrees with the notion that there is a point (not 10x, somewhere lower) where you will be forced to loosen your calling/raising standards considerably out of desperation.
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I love playing short-stacked...I think that is the best part of my game, actually. Honestly, I think it forces you to pay attention a lot more, it keeps you on your toes. Granted, I'd love a big stack just like anybody, but I think you need to know how to survive with a small stack to be successful (ie Harrington).You are wondering about 5 XBB at a table of 4 others... Ok. So lets say the BB is 20. You've got 100. Lets start you off in the button. You need to calculate your hands. Since you are in the button, you'll see 3 hands for free.... or 8 hands for 30 dollars, leaving you with 70. So you have options... when should you go all in? Well, a 100 dollar all-in is more likely to buy people out than a 70 dollar all in. You need to figure out if 70 is enough. Basically, you want one or no callers. Will a bet of 70 buy out 3 players? 100 is more likely to. OK, so, let's say you want to try to push in with 100... that means you have 3 free hands to choose from. There are also 4 others at the table... so you should look for a hand that is a 1:5 type hand or rarer. Since 5 hands are in play, you should want to push all in with a hand that comes along once in 6 or so... does this make sense? If you do not see a 1:10 hand or so... maybe you should buy the 5 extra hands (opportunities) for 30% of your chipstack... Again, look for a hand better than 1:5, and just push all in. Let's say you get nothing but rags, and you are down to 70, and about to be hit by the BB. You can still get 5 more hands for the price of 30 dollars, leaving you with 40 in chips. This is not a bad idea.... because now you've seen 10 hands, and will see 5 more. This means you should be getting a 1:15 type hand soon. This is a very strong hand with 4 other players.... and who knows? By now maybe somebody else got knocked out? So lets say you get a 1:15 type hand with 40 left... PUSH ALL IN! Chances are, since it's only doubling the BB, you will get a few callers... which could be a good thing. If you lose, you are out, but if you win, you could triple or quadruple up! The upside is much higher than the downside. Just remember, be patient! General rule of thumb though, is that any pair, or A-x is a good all in hand at a smallish table. with A-x, you are ahead unless the other guy has a pocket pair or ace-better. Hope that your high card holds up!Here's a story about patience... I was shortstacked in one of those multi-table party poker (play money) tournaments. There was about 60 people left of the original 2000. I was short stacked... got dealt KQo i late position. I had maybe 5 times the BB or so. Some guy in middle position bets out 4000. I had about 7000 left I think. So i was going to move all in and hope to double up, however there was still one caller behind me to act. Also, I noticed the guy who raised it in mid-position only had about 3500 left, meaning he bet over 50% of his stack pre-flop. This screamed AA. SO, I thought, "why push all in if I know I'm beat?? Yeah its a good all in hand but I KNOW I'm beat..." So I thought for a while and folded. The other guy called and so they ended up showing QQ (The guy that I THOUGHT had AA), and the other guy had.... AA! I was excited that I made such a huge laydown at a critical time. And guess what? about 2-3 hands later I was dealt KK and doubled up! So be patient, and don't just move all in if you know you're beat!

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