Call, Fold, Or Raise On River?

[dscoot 0]

Low limit live game. $3bb U are dealt 88 utg. U limp, as do 3 others. Both blinds are in too. Flop comes 6.6.10.everyone checks. Turn is 8. big blind bets 15. u call. utg+1 calls. everyone else folds.River is J.big blind bets 15. u make it 45. utg +1 makes it 115. big blind folds. both players have 200 more. Just wanna see what people would do here.

[Metternich 0]

Folding this would be a crime against poker. You have the 3rd non quad nuts, pocket tens/jacks are pretty much out of his range (owing to the limp PF) and he could easily be doing this with a 6 or a str8.I Hellmuth my chips in, but this looks like a bad beat post.

[mtdesmoines 3]

dummest pole in history (sorry, man)

[NoBBiR 0]

Hollywood, and then shove. Mutter something about how you think you're beat. Don't repeat yourself if asked to.If he has you beat, which in all likelihood he doesn't, that's just too bad.

[dscoot 0]

dummest pole in history (sorry, man)

Did u even vote? So far ive got more responses than votes. How can that be?

[Roo6339 0]

Easy shove. If you're beat throw up in your mouth, then move on to the next hand.

[king_tanner 84]

all in babyunless your a tightwad then just call

[NoBBiR 0]

all in babyunless your a tightwad then just call

Just calling even for a NIT here is a crime against humanity.

[Zach6668 513]

Wtf are you scared of?Try thinking about the hand, and the previous streets, then put people on ranges, and get your ****ing chips in the pot.

[Jadaki 0]

So far two people have voted completely incorretly

[Acid_Knight 2]

Wtf are you scared of?Try thinking about the hand, and the previous streets, then put people on ranges, and get your ****ing chips in the pot.

Double down?

[AimHigher 0]

Anybody else play this hand differently on most, if not all, of the streets?P.S - Raisey Daisy

[pele_br 0]

I haven't read other players responses yet.I'm pretty sure no one is going to fold this hand.Calling in my opinion is giving waaay to much credit to the other players.I voted for a raise, because there are only three hands that beat you, and I would eliminate 10 10 and J J considering the pre flop action. If someone limped with 66 and flopped quads, then it is a cooler, but you basically have every other hand beat, so shovel your money in. There are far too many hands that you beat in this situation IMO.

[pele_br 0]

Just thought a bit more, and I'm predicting 10 6 and 10 j for boat over boat over boat... It's still a raise though...

[Acid_Knight 2]

My read is that nobody ever posts hands on here that they win anymore, so I'm guessing the BB did have TT or JJ, probably TT. There are tons of weak tight players there who won't raise TT out of the big blind.The only 2 outcomes of this thread that I can see are 1. He raised and lost2. He called and won

[Snamuh 0]

Just thought a bit more, and I'm predicting 10 6 and 10 j for boat over boat over boat... It's still a raise though...

TJ isn't a full house.Easy shove.

[dscoot 0]

Thanks for the responsesI'll wait till after work tonight to post the results, in case your interested.

[dms26 3]

I can't really see doing anything other than shove, I'm more than happy getting my chips in here. I'm not worried about JJ when it's a limped pot and no bet on a 66T flop. So really we are only worried about TT or 66, easy push.

[throwemaway 0]

Lol I voted for call because I thought it was 10 10 6, not 6610..Easy shovel then

[Acid_Knight 2]

I can't really see doing anything other than shove, I'm more than happy getting my chips in here. I'm not worried about JJ when it's a limped pot and no bet on a 66T flop. So really we are only worried about TT or 66, easy push.

What about the other 88. It'd suck to have to chop the pot.

[throwemaway 0]

What about the other 88. It'd suck to have to chop the pot.

lol

[dscoot 0]

Here's what happened.Sorry forgot to say that utg+1 was standard tight player, and the blind was just normal non-maniac player ; however they were new to the table for only 70mins and I could be wrong.So my thinking thru the hand is this. No-one bets the flop. Fine with me. I am always more worried about the blinds having small trips on a board with 66, than I am with the limpers. Maybe a ten out there is scared to bet with 66 on board, maybe not.So when the big blind comes betting 15 into like 20d pot on the turn, It is more easy to put them on 3 sixes than any other hand. And in this situation, I am actually wanting him to make a boat with his trips. Thats why I only called here, i gots no problem with people raising there, that just aint my style. Then the utg+1 calls the fifteen here. I'm not super-worried about him here, but then again, his call seems out of place in the hand. Why is he even playing ? Me and the bb have the board covered every which way from sunday. BB bets 15 one last time on river , likely meaning he didnt make a boat, or if he did, we'll find out after our raise. I make the second raise up to 45. Then the utg+1 makes 3rd raise on river to 115. This guy didnt take the betting lead the whole hand, now makes a 3rd bet on the river. Sounds like a monster. Also keep in mind that this is also how i am playing my monster hand, so it should be easier for me to recognize his play as extreme strength too. The last huge reason for me to think i was beat was this. If the bb had a six on the 66810J board, its less likely the utg+1 also has a six. So if utg+1 doesnt have a six, what logical hand could he three bet on the river that doesnt have me beat? None. Unless he's a donkey or maniac. Keep in mind too , that his third raise was only to 115, definitely more of a "call me bet" than a "im bluffing" bet. In hindsight, I suppose he could have had JJ, but to be honest, that thought never popped my mind, all that made sense to me was 1010. What did he have?1010What did i do?Raise was never once a thought in mind, the millisecond that that 3rd raise on river came out. I begrudgingly called . I honestly feel that if this hand was on a television final table, or in some huge pot on the way to gettting to a major tournament final table, i could muck almost instantly due to how awesome I would look or how much more valuable the play would mean. It was much easier for me to call because the stakes were so low, and because i was up on the night, and calling this bet only cost me 33% of what i was up. And the best reason for me to call is to see if i am right. Over your poker career, u do need to train yourself that yes, your reads are right. Finding this information out in the lowest stakes seems smart than higher stakes. But if I had to honestly guess how often i had the winner here, during the moment that i was pondering calling and did call, i would guess there was like a 1 to 0% chance i had the winner. I mean i really wasnt feeling it. So my main learning experience from this hand is this: I need to make these folds more often when i feel this strongly i have a loser, no matter how hard a fold it may be. It just takes practice to make these sick folds live, and you gotta start sometime. I mean to be honest I have NEVER made a fold this sick in my live history (225 hours! lol ). And that is a stat that I wish I was better at.On the other hand, i do seem to be able to make sick calls live. I mean ive called bets and won with j high before, heck Ive called w 10 high, did i win with ten high? NO! They had quads! But anyway, I can make sick calls just not the sick folds live yet. P.s. I used zero live tells on this hand, in fact never even looked at the guys besides maybe a glance. On this specific hand both players were on my immeadiate right and left, so I kinda could feel their body aura and if they made big moves i would have noticed, but they didnt, so i just played the hand by reading the board and interpreting their bets.

[NoBBiR 0]

What about the other 88. It'd suck to have to chop the pot.

Fo' Real.

[NoBBiR 0]

Here's what happened.Sorry forgot to say that utg+1 was standard tight player, and the blind was just normal non-maniac player ; however they were new to the table for only 70mins and I could be wrong.So my thinking thru the hand is this. No-one bets the flop. Fine with me. I am always more worried about the blinds having small trips on a board with 66, than I am with the limpers. Maybe a ten out there is scared to bet with 66 on board, maybe not.So when the big blind comes betting 15 into like 20d pot on the turn, It is more easy to put them on 3 sixes than any other hand. And in this situation, I am actually wanting him to make a boat with his trips. Thats why I only called here, i gots no problem with people raising there, that just aint my style. Then the utg+1 calls the fifteen here. I'm not super-worried about him here, but then again, his call seems out of place in the hand. Why is he even playing ? Me and the bb have the board covered every which way from sunday. BB bets 15 one last time on river , likely meaning he didnt make a boat, or if he did, we'll find out after our raise. I make the second raise up to 45. Then the utg+1 makes 3rd raise on river to 115. This guy didnt take the betting lead the whole hand, now makes a 3rd bet on the river. Sounds like a monster. Also keep in mind that this is also how i am playing my monster hand, so it should be easier for me to recognize his play as extreme strength too. The last huge reason for me to think i was beat was this. If the bb had a six on the 66810J board, its less likely the utg+1 also has a six. So if utg+1 doesnt have a six, what logical hand could he three bet on the river that doesnt have me beat? None. Unless he's a donkey or maniac. Keep in mind too , that his third raise was only to 115, definitely more of a "call me bet" than a "im bluffing" bet. In hindsight, I suppose he could have had JJ, but to be honest, that thought never popped my mind, all that made sense to me was 1010. What did he have?1010

Him having 1010 here doesn't matter. That's results orientated. At your regular low limit game, not raising the river should really be punished with jail time.

What did i do?Raise was never once a thought in mind, the millisecond that that 3rd raise on river came out. I begrudgingly called . I honestly feel that if this hand was on a television final table, or in some huge pot on the way to gettting to a major tournament final table, i could muck almost instantly due to how awesome I would look or how much more valuable the play would mean. It was much easier for me to call because the stakes were so low, and because i was up on the night, and calling this bet only cost me 33% of what i was up. And the best reason for me to call is to see if i am right. Over your poker career, u do need to train yourself that yes, your reads are right. Finding this information out in the lowest stakes seems smart than higher s

Absolutely none of that matters. If this was a tournament, it would be even worse to think about folding this. Anytime you have an overfull in a tournament, you should be going broke unless you've seen the guys hand.The stakes being low, you being up, and how much it costs of your profit do not matter at all. Zach would kill you if he read that. NL cash games are about maximizing your equity and being able to fall back on your bankroll when you either are not winning the percentage of hands you statistically should be winning, or are not getting your money in good. Profit means absolutely nothing while you're still at the table. It's just more ammo for your gun.

But if I had to honestly guess how often i had the winner here, during the moment that i was pondering calling and did call, i would guess there was like a 1 to 0% chance i had the winner. I mean i really wasnt feeling it. So my main learning experience from this hand is this: I need to make these folds more often when i feel this strongly i have a loser, no matter how hard a fold it may be. It just takes practice to make these sick folds live, and you gotta start sometime. I mean to be honest I have NEVER made a fold this sick in my live history (225 hours! lol ). And that is a stat that I wish I was better at.

You don't want to fold here, ever. Folding is just a bad play. There are so many hands that you beat. If you're folding this because you have a feeling that you're behind, you're not putting your opponent on a serious range. Just looking at a raise and saying, "he must have 1010! He three bet the river!" is crazy. He could easily have 6x where x is a boat card.And "feeling it" is a term used by people who don't know anything about poker. The game is a mathematic game, not a feel game. If you feel that you have the worst hand here 99% of the time, you're looking too hard for a reason to fold.

On the other hand, i do seem to be able to make sick calls live. I mean ive called bets and won with j high before, heck Ive called w 10 high, did i win with ten high? NO! They had quads! But anyway, I can make sick calls just not the sick folds live yet. P.s. I used zero live tells on this hand, in fact never even looked at the guys besides maybe a glance. On this specific hand both players were on my immeadiate right and left, so I kinda could feel their body aura and if they made big moves i would have noticed, but they didnt, so i just played the hand by reading the board and interpreting their bets.

You should be watching your opponents live. That's what makes live play better than online, you don't just have to look at their betting. Physical tells make great live players great.

[NoBBiR 0]

I don't think this is really a reasonable range, but for arguments sake:

Board: 6c 6d Ts 8s JhDead:  	equity 	win 	tie 		  pots won 	pots tied	Hand 0: 	81.081%	  81.08% 	00.00% 				90 			0.00   { 88 }Hand 1: 	18.919%	  18.92% 	00.00% 				21 			0.00   { JJ-TT, 66, A6s, K6s, J6s, T6s, 86s, A6o, K6o, J6o, T6o, 86o }

This is probably better for an UTG player:

Board: 6c 6d Ts 8s JhDead:  	equity 	win 	tie 		  pots won 	pots tied	Hand 0: 	61.818%	  61.82% 	00.00% 				34 			0.00   { 88 }Hand 1: 	38.182%	  38.18% 	00.00% 				21 			0.00   { JJ-TT, 66, A6s, T6s, 86s, 76s, A6o }

Even against a more realistic range for a low limit game like this, you're still a pretty big statistical favorite over his range. You just HAVE to raise, especially since you said you had no physical tells.