I Stabbed Someone For $60,000

[IQCrash 1]

So I've been playing a lot more live poker recently. About 5 days a week. Here's what happened the other night.Table has been pretty insane, as is usually the case at the low level (100NL) capped NL games. I've been at the table about 3 hours and am up to about $850 from my 2nd buy-in.An armenian guy sits down and proceeds to bluff off about $600 in 20 minutes. Raising $50 pre and shoving on any flop. I'm hoping he doesn't leave and continues to rebuy.Thankfully, he goes on a rush and builds his 7th buy-in back up to about $1100. I've not played a hand in about an hour. A combination of being card dead and an absolute nit.Then this hand comes up.He bumps it to only $20 from UTG and with about 2 callers behind him, I make the call with 7 8 from the button.The pot is roughly $84 going to the flop. And when I say the flop, I mean the gift from God.9 T J :spade:He fires $100, and it folds to me. I smooth call.The turn is the 2 and he bets small. $20. I can't tell whether he's begging for a call, or just trying to take the pot.I think about raising and building the pot, but I felt like if I just called he'd shove just about any river.So I just call.This is where it gets ugly.The river is the one card I don't want to see. K .Now the board reads 9 T J 2 K .He open shoves..There's about $320 in the pot, and I've only invested $140 of it - and it's roughly $700 more to me.I agonize over it for a good five minutes. It's bad enough thinking about folding a straight flush, but to fold it against a lunatic was even tougher.Ultimately, I read him for really strong, and even if I was wrong I'd only be out $140 and have plenty more spots to take this guy out.Before I continue on with the story, let me say that opinions on the fold have been pretty split among my friends.Some say that it was an easy fold, even against a tard, and others wonder what better spot I was waiting for.Anyway, that's just a sidenote. Here's why I'm telling you this story.I fold 7 8 face up, and he says, "That's what I put you on."And flips over A Q .I practically vomited as the rest of the table stood up and went completely batshit insane on the guy.In case you're wondering why...9 T J Q K A vs. 7 8 9 T J :spade:Not only would this have been a bad beat jackpot - but it would have been a super jackpot.Meaning $100,000. With $60,000 going to me, $20,000 going to him, and the table share being $20,000.The table literally broke then and there. I went home and have been wondering about my fold still, even though it's been several days.Like I said above, opinions from friends have been split - but I still think I made the right fold.Anyway, just wanted to share.

[HighwayStar 8]

Woah

[fitzinabox 0]

omg, that is ****ing disgusting. Sorry iQ Crash... I feel sick for you.I prob would of called because im a calling station and i probably wouldnt of even thought about the badbeat jackpot.

[qyayqi 11]

no bbj, go with your read. bbj, i think you call all day long knowing even if you lose you win.

[IQCrash 1]

no bbj, go with your read. bbj, i think you call all day long knowing even if you lose you win.

If he has just the naked Q , then there's no jackpot as you need to play both cards in your hand to qualify. Thus my fold.Still torn on the fold, as the Q is the only card that beats me there.Obv results oriented thinking tells me worst. fold. evar.

[bdc30 0]

no bbj, go with your read. bbj, i think you call all day long knowing even if you lose you win.

seriously! tell me this is some kind of level? if he has the naked Qs, then good for him....That's why you play within your br...reloooad.

[chgocubs99 0]

Don't fold a qualifying BBJ hand after all the cards are out, ever.Edit: Would have been nice if he just checked and called, though, since he "put you on" your hand. Shows how clueless people are when they say that.

[Suited_Up 2]

Also... don't EVER fold and SHOW a straight flush.

[IQCrash 1]

seriously! tell me this is some kind of level? if he has the naked Qs, then good for him....That's why you play within your br...reloooad.

Don't fold a qualifying BBJ hand after all the cards are out, ever.

This is where I don't agree.Based on my read, there were only two hands villain was shoving in that spot.XxAs or XxQs. One I crush, one crushes me.It's $320ish in the pot, and over $700 more to me with only $140 invested.Results oriented thinking aside, you're telling me you call here?The odds of him having AsQs are ridiculously slim, so the thought of me not folding simply because my hand qualifies for a jackpot seems silly. You can argue that the fold is silly because only one card beats me, but I don't think you can argue that just because my hand qualified for a BBJ I can't fold.

[Suited_Up 2]

This is where I don't agree.Based on my read, there were only two hands villain was shoving in that spot.XxAs or XxQs. One I crush, one crushes me.It's $320ish in the pot, and over $700 more to me with only $140 invested.Results oriented thinking aside, you're telling me you call here?The odds of him having AsQs are ridiculously slim, so the thought of me not folding simply because my hand qualifies for a jackpot seems silly. You can argue that the fold is silly because only one card beats me, but I don't think you can argue that just because my hand qualified for a BBJ I can't fold.

Except you said he'd been playing like this all day. So aren't the odds of him having a bluff just as likely as a naked Q or AQ?

[chgocubs99 0]

This is where I don't agree.Based on my read, there were only two hands villain was shoving in that spot.XxAs or XxQs. One I crush, one crushes me.It's $320ish in the pot, and over $700 more to me with only $140 invested.Results oriented thinking aside, you're telling me you call here?The odds of him having AsQs are ridiculously slim, so the thought of me not folding simply because my hand qualifies for a jackpot seems silly. You can argue that the fold is silly because only one card beats me, but I don't think you can argue that just because my hand qualified for a BBJ I can't fold.

Generally, hands that qualify for a BBJ are pretty ****ing strong.Not like you'd be showing down trips or something, it's a goddamn straight flush. The fact that there were 4 to a straight flush out there means very little when you consider:1) The strenth of your hand2) The opponent3) The hands that beat you4) The BBJThe case for calling?1) Your "read" (which assigns a super narrow range to a maniac who a minute ago you said may "shove any river")PLUS, if he had the royal, with the 100k sitting there, why would he not check and call???? Since he bet that is even more reason to believe he has the As or some other nonsense.

[IQCrash 1]

Except you said he'd been playing like this all day. So aren't the odds of him having a bluff just as likely as a naked Q or AQ?

Yes. Exactly, actually. I read him for being strong, however, which to me narrowed it down to either the As or the Qs.So why risk $700+ for $320 with only $140 invested? Dunno, assuming the table didn't break, I think I could have found better spots to break him than that.But as I said, opinions among my friends are pretty polarized on this, with half of them being in your camp.

[psujohn 0]

Unless the story continues with how the rest of the table dragged him into the parking lot and beat him to a bloody pulp I don't believe it happened.

[Doug 0]

http://www.pocketfives.com/poker-forums/7/...s_3F00_-2808475

[Outlaw_IA 0]

I would have raised on the turn and ended up all in im sure, then not had to worry about it

[Yoda 1]

http://www.pocketfives.com/poker-forums/7/...s_3F00_-2808475

Stop posting!

[HollywoodAFD 0]

If he has just the naked Q , then there's no jackpot as you need to play both cards in your hand to qualify. Thus my fold.Still torn on the fold, as the Q is the only card that beats me there.Obv results oriented thinking tells me worst. fold. evar.

I'm wondering why he slow played the nut flush also.I'm guessing he was setting you up for a check-raise which never came.As for the turn...I see both sides: Trapping him vs. Raising.Had you gone all in on the turn...you still would have lost. Going all-in on the turn would only be to get him to fold so the river couldn't save him.... but I doubt he would have folded a nut flush...so results would be the same.I can't tell you how many times I've lost and the last thought was "There's only one card that could beat me".I would have never shown the str-flush though.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

If you think you have a straight flush, and it's a losing, qualifying hand, you must call. of Queen of Spades hands that beat you, QQ and AQ suited are the two most likely hands. saying the chance of him having that hand is "rediculously slim" is plain wrong. Coupled with your read that he was going to push with any hand? This was a bad fold. 720 into 60,000 that's 1-83... you really think, of the Queen of spades hands that beat you, AQ comes up less than that? IThink you're trying to dismiss the odds of AQ just to make yourself feel better. I Dont' mean to pile on you, but that was a bad fold, with the BB jackpot in play. If it wasn't in play? That would be a different story.

[vbnautilus 48]

Where were you playing? If you are risking $700 to win $60,000, you only have to win 1 in 85 times.

[Doug 0]

Is this thread a joke or not? I know if it was made on 2p2 it would have been deleted already.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Also the turn bet is either a slow down bet, to try and get a cheap draw t othe ace of spades, or it's a huge hand. Either way, you should have raised the turn, in my opinion. NOt enough to make him consider folding, but enough to "charge him" to draw as it will be your only chance to make a draw pay.

[FCP Bob 1,312]

If you think you have a straight flush, and it's a losing, qualifying hand, you must call. of Queen of Spades hands that beat you, QQ and AQ suited are the two most likely hands. saying the chance of him having that hand is "rediculously slim" is plain wrong. Coupled with your read that he was going to push with any hand? This was a bad fold. 720 into 60,000 that's 1-83... you really think, of the Queen of spades hands that beat you, AQ comes up less than that? IThink you're trying to dismiss the odds of AQ just to make yourself feel better. I Dont' mean to pile on you, but that was a bad fold, with the BB jackpot in play. If it wasn't in play? That would be a different story.

I agree with BigD.Bet you don't see me post that statement too often.

[Canuckickstan 2]

Is this thread a joke or not? I know if it was made on 2p2 it would have been deleted already.

Stop posting!

[HollywoodAFD 0]

Is this thread a joke or not? I know if it was made on 2p2 it would have been deleted already.

Shut up Doug

[outsider13 0]

Throw that in the muck, puke in your mouth, go home get really drunk......repeat if necessary.edit, no way I fold this, but please don't fold that face up.....for your own personal safety.