flush draw and odds

[NorthPacific 25]

Critique this hand please.Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converterPreflop: Hero is CO with [6h], [Ah]. 1 fold, BB calls.Cold called two mostly because of position but also because the raiser has been maniacal.Flop: (8.50 SB) [4h], [8h], [9d] (4 players)BB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls, BB calls.flopped the nut flush draw and called.Turn: (6.25 BB) [Kd] (4 players)BB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls.No help and everyone is raising. I call the raise and then the 3 bet? Do I have odds to do so?River: (15.25 BB) [Jc] (3 players)UTG+1 bets, MP2 folds, Hero folds.No flush and I fold. Did I play this ok?Final Pot: 16.25 BB

[KDawgCometh 2]

raise the flop for a free card on the turn, hopefully

[custom36 4]

I'd fold preflop. I'd also fold the turn.

[Guest XXEddie]

I'd fold preflop. I'd also fold the turn.

certainly fold the turnif you hit the on river, youll bet/raise....and also say "I hit my flush"

[Guest]

Critique this hand please.Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converterPreflop: Hero is CO with [6h], [Ah]. 1 fold, BB calls.Cold called two mostly because of position but also because the raiser has been maniacal.Even against a maniac this is a VERY loose call. I say wait for a better time to make a stand against a crazy.Flop: (8.50 SB) [4h], [8h], [9d] (4 players)BB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls, BB calls.flopped the nut flush draw and called.I would have raised here. If the guy is nuts he may not have anything yet and your A may still be good, and the 2 callers is good as well.Turn: (6.25 BB) [Kd] (4 players)BB checks, UTG+1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls.No help and everyone is raising. I call the raise and then the 3 bet? Do I have odds to do so?Calling here is fine. Getting 3-bet sucks but you have odds on hitting your flush to make the calls. The Mp2 waking up to the king means he either hit a set or has something like AK so you're probably dead to the flush outs and even then they may not all be clean.River: (15.25 BB) [Jc] (3 players)UTG+1 bets, MP2 folds, Hero folds.No flush and I fold. Did I play this ok?Uhh, good fold? I wonder what MP2 had to raise on the turn and then fold to one bet in a huge pot....Final Pot: 16.25 BB

Overall, it was ok. I don't like the preflop call, and I think you should have raised the flop which may have saved some of the problems that arose on the turn.Zara

[Guest]

I'd fold preflop. I'd also fold the turn.

certainly fold the turnif you hit the on river, youll bet/raise....and also say "I hit my flush"

I disagree on folding the turn. It's 4.75:1 to call as a 4:1 shot to hit. Especially against a maniac your flush will get paid off nicely and you should be able to make up any issues with the 3-bet happening.Zara

[RonBurgundy 0]

fold preflop.the turn is mathematically correct to call.the flop is the part that is really debatable, raising MAYBE gets you a free card but you have about 29% equity and you're putting 33% of the money in, assuming the BB folds to 2 cold and the other two call. I like calling better because you want more people to pay you off if you do hit the flush.so call the flop. call the turn. fold the river. you played everything after your original mistake of calling preflop.

[Guest]

fold preflop.the turn is mathematically correct to call.the flop is the part that is really debatable, raising MAYBE gets you a free card but you have about 29% equity and you're putting 33% of the money in, assuming the BB folds to 2 cold and the other two call. I like calling better because you want more people to pay you off if you do hit the flush.so call the flop. call the turn. fold the river. you played everything after your original mistake of calling preflop.

How do you figure only 29%? you'll hit the flush about 35% of the time, and raising may clean up A outs if they only have overs.Zara

[KDawgCometh 2]

I'd fold preflop. I'd also fold the turn.

certainly fold the turnif you hit the on river, youll bet/raise....and also say "I hit my flush"

:doh: . ohh ohh eddie. Do not fold this turn at all. Calling PF is fine with the coldcaller in between you and the PFR. Folding the turn would be a grievous mistake. YOu are getting almost 5-1 on a call that needs to just come in at 4-1, so you are making a bad play by folding there. So what if you say "I hit my flush" on the river, you will get paid off by several people maing crying calls. YOu get paid off on teh river a lot by raising it with a quality hand because of the crying call factor. You have much to learn young butterfly

[RonBurgundy 0]

fold preflop.the turn is mathematically correct to call.the flop is the part that is really debatable, raising MAYBE gets you a free card but you have about 29% equity and you're putting 33% of the money in, assuming the BB folds to 2 cold and the other two call. I like calling better because you want more people to pay you off if you do hit the flush.so call the flop. call the turn. fold the river. you played everything after your original mistake of calling preflop.

How do you figure only 29%? you'll hit the flush about 35% of the time, and raising may clean up A outs if they only have overs.Zara

35% is for turn and river, i believe. in limit, you need to calculate seperately.

[Nutcracker 0]

fold preflop.the turn is mathematically correct to call.the flop is the part that is really debatable, raising MAYBE gets you a free card but you have about 29% equity and you're putting 33% of the money in, assuming the BB folds to 2 cold and the other two call. I like calling better because you want more people to pay you off if you do hit the flush.so call the flop. call the turn. fold the river. you played everything after your original mistake of calling preflop.

How do you figure only 29%? you'll hit the flush about 35% of the time, and raising may clean up A outs if they only have overs.Zara

35% is for turn and river, i believe. in limit, you need to calculate seperately.

When calculating pot equity, you calculate how likely you are to win the hand, so you count both the turn and river.

[Wily 0]

You don't want to call two cold with Ax suited preflop .. but since you did, you want to raise the flop when it's bet to you.Why? You have more than just a flush draw here - you have a small pair and an overcard, giving you as many as 5 more outs (of course, if you're against a set, you wouldnt gain any more, but there's no way to tell on this flop). So you want to want to chase out the unpaired face cards that will stay in for one more bet but not for two - AK, KQ, etc., one of which MP2 may have hit on the turn (although his fold on the river is strange). If you raise the flop and one or both of the other players still call, this will also prevent them from raising the turn most times, giving you a cheaper draw. You may even shut down the maniac in UTG and allow yourself a free card on the turn. Turn, no matter how many bets it is to you, if it's an unpaired board and you have a four flush draw to the nuts you have to call. Even if it was capped, you'd still have about a marginal call there. Three bets cold, still you have to call. River, sadly, you have to fold (unless you really want to look the maniac up, and call for information).Edit- reading this hand over, it's possible that Mp2 semibluffed the turn with a good draw and wanted to play back at UTG, who MP2 may suspect also of being a maniac. His most likely holdings are two diamonds with a straight draw of some sort,such as 7 8 or 10 J . He would want to shut out you and BB, so if he hits even a single pair on the river with overs he has a greater chance of winning it. Unfortunately, you called and UTG expresses that he does have the goods with his three-bet, and so when he missed the river he had to fold.

[RonBurgundy 0]

fold preflop.the turn is mathematically correct to call.the flop is the part that is really debatable, raising MAYBE gets you a free card but you have about 29% equity and you're putting 33% of the money in, assuming the BB folds to 2 cold and the other two call. I like calling better because you want more people to pay you off if you do hit the flush.so call the flop. call the turn. fold the river. you played everything after your original mistake of calling preflop.

How do you figure only 29%? you'll hit the flush about 35% of the time, and raising may clean up A outs if they only have overs.Zara

35% is for turn and river, i believe. in limit, you need to calculate seperately.

When calculating pot equity, you calculate how likely you are to win the hand, so you count both the turn and river.

gotcha, thanks.

[Guest]

fold preflop.the turn is mathematically correct to call.the flop is the part that is really debatable, raising MAYBE gets you a free card but you have about 29% equity and you're putting 33% of the money in, assuming the BB folds to 2 cold and the other two call. I like calling better because you want more people to pay you off if you do hit the flush.so call the flop. call the turn. fold the river. you played everything after your original mistake of calling preflop.

How do you figure only 29%? you'll hit the flush about 35% of the time, and raising may clean up A outs if they only have overs.Zara

35% is for turn and river, i believe. in limit, you need to calculate seperately.

As I understand it, the equity is the percent of the time you will win in total. You make your flush 35% of the time so you have at least a 35% pot equity. If you're only looking at turn only, how do you get 29%? The flush will only come on the turn about 20% of the time. The raise is also worth it for the chance of a free card on the turn and also the fact that your A may be good as well. Plus, in this case it probably would have kept the MP2 from raising the turn so it would have actually cost less to see the river.Zara

[KDawgCometh 2]

why is anyone advocating a fold here PF given the read on teh PFR and the addition of the cold donker in between. I know that I'm not laying it down PF and I don't see why anyone is advocating it

[wrto4556 0]

Raise the flop (not for a free card). We have a small equity edge to push. Cap if you get the chance and there is still 3 people in (including yourself).