Poker News

[prslacker13 0]

"Andrew Black with a MiracleAndy Black is all-in with {6-Clubs}{8-Spades} to the flop of {8-Hearts}{5-Diamonds}{7-Diamonds} his opponent calls with a set of fives and Andy needs the gutshot and gets the {9-Diamonds} on the turn and sweats out the full boat draw that misses on the river."I have been following the WSOP on pokernews.com. It has been pretty good but a few times it doesnt make sense. Black all in here 5678, is that a guy shot?? i didnt think so but their reporter did. I remember another hand that said something like "button raised preflop middle position limper calls. Flop XXX button checks, middle position bets, button folds." I thought it was odd that the button was checking and first to act on the flop. Anyone else realize this stuff.

[barrec 0]

i wonder if the report you read was borrowed from bluff's coverage, or vice versa, as they made the exact same report.that's the best lookin' gutshot i've ever heard of.

[Governator 54]

They have made several small mistakes, but you can't knock them, they've been doing a pretty good job keeping up. Also, it would likely be bluff copying pokernews since pokernews has exclusive coverage rights.

[wdogg40 0]

i wonder if the report you read was borrowed from bluff's coverage, or vice versa, as they made the exact same report.that's the best lookin' gutshot i've ever heard of.

All of Bluff's coverage is powered by: pokernews is how they put it.

[barrec 0]

All of Bluff's coverage is powered by: pokernews is how they put it.

bingo. i just remember reading in another thread that bluff had all the rights...didn't know they were in tandum.

[Jeepster80125 0]

They have made several small mistakes, but you can't knock them, they've been doing a pretty good job keeping up. Also, it would likely be bluff copying pokernews since pokernews has exclusive coverage rights.

Not quite good sir.Bluff has paid pokernews to monitor and report chip counts. I don't know if anyone remembers Cardplayer making a video of them catching a bluff reporter a couple of months ago copying and pasting chip counts and updates to an event that CP has exclusive rights to. Tony G has a majority stake in Pokernews, and posted this in his blog.I have never tried to hide who I am. I am from the street. I have made many mistakes in my life, but I have always felt that I treated all people fairly and with respect. You may see me on TV giving someone the business, and feel it's unfair, but to me it's all part of the game. I think if you ask people if they think I am a fair person in business and in life most would say yes.Away from poker, I have a successful business. I own a majority of the shares in PokerNews Limited. This company owns many websites, the biggest of which is PokerNews.com. We are having our best year ever and right now we should be enjoying the finest moment of our life as a company. We are at the WSOP and are supposed to have an agreement with Bluff to be the exclusive provider of updates and chip counts. But unfortunately over the last few days, we have been pirated and simply stolen from by many of our competitors - including Cardplayer. Cardplayer is hiding behind a legal fence that they were standing on top of just this time last year - kicking anyone who dared try to climb it in the teeth.We put the chip counts up on PokerNews, and one minute later they are up on Cardplayer.com. Cardplayer has no one counting chips at the WSOP, and they know that counting chips is against the rules for them since we beat them to the rights for coverage this year. But they have the counts up on their site, stolen straight from the counts we are doing live in the room at the Rio. We have paid a lot of money for these rights and a lot of money to the 40 people we have hired to cover the series.I am from the street and when you steal from me, you are playing with fire. This is no different than taking money out of my pocket when it was all I had, which wasn't that long ago. I'll bet the Shulmans never thought they would be stealing from me two years ago when they were on top and PokerNews had three employees and was just getting by. I urge the Shulmans to think about what they are doing to me now. They should think about how people feel when they are robbed.I urge the Shulmans & all of the CardPlayer family to stop this unethical activity, right now, and all will be forgiven. I'm sure they feel bad about how things have gone for them over the past year, but that doesn't make this ok. They have fallen from their high horse, and there must be a lot of anger for them to do something like this. They must know others will not respect them and they must just not care.This probably will have to go to lawyers for the final outcome. No one is talking about this now, but I tell the world the truth on this blog.And from http://taopoker.blogspot.com/, reprinted without permission.This year, I'm trying to out do myself. The live updates are over at PokerNews.com and the stories are posted here on the Tao of Poker or saved for future reference. After logging 15-16 hour days on the floor, I put in several hours at home writing up my notes, writing posts here, and other freelance work and columns. This is my reality for seven weeks and I've accepted my fate.The bitter pill to swallow is knowing that my feed gets stolen and that the coverage I provide for PokerNews.com gets ripped off by rival outlets who are on site sitting in the media room or off site somewhere. I would never steal content from anyone because I have enough pride as a writer that I want to do my own work and the ego kicks in where I want to show everyone else that I cannot only do the job, but do it 100x times better than them.The irony of the situation, as Wicked Chops Poker pointed out, is that a few months ago Cardplayer gloated and posted a video where a Bluff reporter allegedly cut and past information at a WPT final table from Cardplayer. Now, they got outed and caught red-handed by Harrah's and Tony G.I personally know that Cardplayer (and other outlets as well - please note that they're not the only content thieves) stole chipcounts from us because we entered fake names into our chipcount list for almost every single event... and Cardplayer stole every one that we entered.

[Suited_Up 2]

So they have the rights to something that becomes public record the second it goes on the internet right???Just curious.I'm following the rules, because I have to to keep my credentials, but they are bullshit rules.If we had the access and ability to have the amount of people to actually keep track for ourselves, that is one thing, but we can't have more than 3 people.... and when it gets under 15 tables, we are shut off completely. How else can we cover the events exactly?

[Suited_Up 2]

Their chipcounts are so ridiculously wrong and outdated half the time anyway, that what difference should it even make?We're allowed to post the Top 10, and can't post a full field till the end of the day... but we are ALLOWED to take them. Since they're the only ones allowed to even get them!!Tony G needs to shut the fuck up.

[Gonefishin55 0]

I think they are doing a chitty job. The chip counts don't seem to be updated anywhere close to real time and they are not very accurate. Just going by what DN has been posting in his update and also comparing some of the hand history reports when someone doubles up or is crippled. How many people do they have covering this thing?

[GrouchPotato 0]

Their chipcounts are so ridiculously wrong and outdated half the time anyway, that what difference should it even make?We're allowed to post the Top 10, and can't post a full field till the end of the day... but we are ALLOWED to take them. Since they're the only ones allowed to even get them!!Tony G needs to shut the fuck up.

Dude-Tony G is from the streets. My guess is he is going to kick your ***, along with your two man crew. Your argument for cutting and pasting chip counts is absurd. Next year you should just record the super bowl and then immediately show it on your half baked poker site. I'm sure the NFL won't mind.

[king_tanner 84]

I kind of agree with Tony G on this one although I agree that it must be frustrating Suited Up that you aren't allowed to do better reporting.Apparently Tony and Poker News paid a lot of money to have the rights to the WSOP this year. Now I'm not exactly how much was paid, but Suited how would you feel if you put down a lot of money to be able to report chip counts and updates, and Cardplayer or somewhere else was pretty much copying and pasting your reports?Pauly said at Tao of Poker that they even put fake names in the chip counts, one of which was Pauly's brother, and within minutes Cardplayer had the exact same counts with the fake players names. That would piss me off if someone was stealing my stuff like that.Also -- there are so many events going on with so many people that its impossible to have up to date chip counts all of the time unless they are almost finishing the tournament. I think PokerNews is doing a good job, they have way more updates than what Cardplayer had last year.

[Suited_Up 2]

Apparently you guys aren't listening.It's not that we aren't allowed to do a better job. We aren't allowed to do it at all!!! We cannot do live updates, or chipcounts.We can copy the top 10 during the day, and copy the rest after the day has ended. I have the rules right in front of me.... WE ARE ALLOWED TO DO THAT!! They are acting like they're doing us a favor by giving us any access whatsoever because they paid all this money. Well if they don't want people using their info, then let us get our own. Either that or just block out all media altogether and stop the fucking bitching! They have at least 50 people and they're doing a shitty job!It's kind of hard to get your own info though, when you aren't even allowed into the tournament area after it's down to 15 tables, don't you think?????

[Suited_Up 2]

Dude-Tony G is from the streets. My guess is he is going to kick your ***, along with your two man crew. Your argument for cutting and pasting chip counts is absurd. Next year you should just record the super bowl and then immediately show it on your half baked poker site. I'm sure the NFL won't mind.

Stop talking out of your ass when you have no idea what you're talking about. It makes you look just as stupid as you obviously are.

[caviness36 0]

As a daily lurker, I rarely post, but this one was too ridiculous to not insert my .02Once an item goes up on the internet, it is fair game. Tony G and Pokernews have a right to be irritated, but I think they are venting their frustrations at the wrong folks. They should be irritated with Harrah's/WSOP. When Pokernews negotiated the rights to exclusive live coverage of the WSOP, they should have done a better job of outlining what that meant. Pokernews should have thought this one through long before they got to this point. Once the reports go up on Pokernews, they become fair game. Pokernews should continue to focus on the fact that they have the most up to date reporting, and hopefully also the most reader-friendly format.I'm with Kurt on this one. Tony G needs to shut the **** up. We live in a free society. People choose to buy/view your product because they feel it is better than others. Having your updates up faster than everyone else is one factor in favor of Pokernews. Focus on shoring up the rest of your site before you start bitching at others. Either that or hire better lawyers the next time you negotiate "exclusive rights".

[caviness36 0]

As a daily lurker, I rarely post, but this one was too ridiculous to not insert my .02Once an item goes up on the internet, it is fair game. Tony G and Pokernews have a right to be irritated, but I think they are venting their frustrations at the wrong folks. They should be irritated with Harrah's/WSOP. When Pokernews negotiated the rights to exclusive live coverage of the WSOP, they should have done a better job of outlining what that meant. Pokernews should have thought this one through long before they got to this point. Once the reports go up on Pokernews, they become fair game. Pokernews should continue to focus on the fact that they have the most up to date reporting, and hopefully also the most reader-friendly format.I'm with Kurt on this one. Tony G needs to shut the **** up. We live in a free society. People choose to buy/view your product because they feel it is better than others. Having your updates up faster than everyone else is one factor in favor of Pokernews. Focus on shoring up the rest of your site before you start bitching at others. Either that or hire better lawyers the next time you negotiate "exclusive rights".

Just a question here... how many posts before the FCP mods stop giving me the **** treatment? 1,000? 5,000? 11,000? Hmmmmm

[king_tanner 84]

It's not that we aren't allowed to do a better job. We aren't allowed to do it at all!!! We cannot do live updates, or chipcounts.We can copy the top 10 during the day, and copy the rest after the day has ended. I have the rules right in front of me.... WE ARE ALLOWED TO DO THAT!! They are acting like they're doing us a favor by giving us any access whatsoever because they paid all this money. Well if they don't want people using their info, then let us get our own. Either that or just block out all media altogether and stop the fucking bitching! They have at least 50 people and they're doing a shitty job!

According to Tao of Poker, CardPlayer and other unnamed sites were posting chip counts 2 minutes after PokerNews posted theirs. That isn't copying the top 10 or copying at the end of the day, that is ripping off someone else's work. So I think Tony G. has a right to be upset. And from a spectator point of view I think PokerNews is doing a good job. Chip counts fluctuate every single hand, even though PokerNews has a large amount of employees, they don't have 1 at every table monitoring the chip counts, that is impossible to do at such a big event.

[Suited_Up 2]

According to Tao of Poker, CardPlayer and other unnamed sites were posting chip counts 2 minutes after PokerNews posted theirs. That isn't copying the top 10 or copying at the end of the day, that is ripping off someone else's work. So I think Tony G. has a right to be upset. And from a spectator point of view I think PokerNews is doing a good job. Chip counts fluctuate every single hand, even though PokerNews has a large amount of employees, they don't have 1 at every table monitoring the chip counts, that is impossible to do at such a big event.

Probably because they didn't tell us all of these crazy rules until yesterday.We had this big meeting and they went over all these specifics that were never mentioned to us before that point.I bet if you look at cardplayer now, that's not the case anymore.It's not Cardplayer's problem, It's Bluff/Harrahs/WSOP, and all the nitwit's running things.

[Suited_Up 2]

Just a question here... how many posts before the FCP mods stop giving me the **** treatment? 1,000? 5,000? 11,000? Hmmmmm

You don't want to know how to fix that... It could get you banned if someone really wanted to.

[Chicago99 0]

I'm not an IP lawyer, but I suspect Cardplayer is safe here so long as they are just reporting the chip counts. There was a case about 10 years ago where the NBA sued Mortorola for sending someone to the games and transmitting the scores to the pagers of sports fans, which Motorola won.The fake name thing isn't going to help either (that was tried by a company that prints phone books and it lost the argument in the SC).I assume cardplayer has lawyers who researched this before they started copying. Maybe Tony should have thought of this before shelling out a bunch of cash instead of complaining after. (I'm not particularly sympathetic since the exclusivity has resulted in an overall lower quality of reporting, though I understand his frustration.)

[freak2304 0]

My personal opinion: Any event open to the public should have no right/no way to control someone else coming in and puting out the info of the event before/very shortly after the "actual reporter" does so. I don't care how much money some company pays to "have the rights" to. This happens with every sport, event, etc. that goes on, why should the WSOP be any different?

[SilentButDeadly3 0]

Basically, Tony G is pissed that people aren't just backing away while PokerNews becomes an uncontested monopoly. Nobody wants competition anymore, whether it be in college sports (where players want to be "the man" right away and don't want to wait behind a guy for a year or two) or when companies want to have exclusive rights to everything. But competition is what makes the U.S. great and is what capitalism thrives on. etc. etc. etc. etc. Tony G is a fckkkk.

[psujohn 0]

The ignorance shown here is simply astounding.

Once an item goes up on the internet, it is fair game.

That's so wrong that the complete opposite is closer to the truth. Once an item goes up on the internet, it is protected by copyright law.

Any event open to the public should have no right/no way to control someone else coming in and puting out the info of the event

This is at least an opinion. One which has little merit and is completely irrelevant however. This is not an event open to the public. It's an event held on private property.

the exclusivity has resulted in an overall lower quality of reporting,

That is quite possibly true and for this you should be angry with Harrahs which sold the exclusive rights and not at Pokernews which bought the exclusive rights.Personally I think Tony G got shafted by Harrahs. If Harrahs is going to sell "exclusive rights" then pokernews should be the only organization with any access to the tournament floor. I suspect Tony G (or whoever worked the deal) is a poor negotiator and got a poorly defined exclusive. If it were my paying for the rights I'd want every other press agency waiting outside on the sidewalk.

[Vandees 0]

Finally, psujohn makes a post that makes sense.I'll tell you this, if it was DN or Harry Demitriou (sp) making the same post as Tony G, you all would be outraged But since its Tony G, a well known prick at the table, you guys all say he's wrong.The fact is, he's right. If he has exclusive rights, everyone else needs to get out of there and follow the rules, including our FCP reporter. Maybe if there wasn't a million jockriders and chip counters running around the 40 people with paid rights to be there could do a better job reporting, and maybe the WSOP staff could run the events better.Its just a matter of time til they close that room to the public and circuit TV it only. Thats what they need to be doing anyway. There's no need to be in there if you're not playing.That being said, I usually go to Cardplayer for updates. Guess I'll try pokernews for a while.

[Suited_Up 2]

Excuse Me????PLEEEEEEEEASE!! PLEASE PLEASE Enlighten me to what rules I am breaking!! I would love to hear it.Especially since I have the fucking rules right next to me, and you have never seen them in your life.I can't wait to hear it.

[Chicago99 0]

The ignorance shown here is simply astounding.That's so wrong that the complete opposite is closer to the truth. Once an item goes up on the internet, it is protected by copyright law.This is at least an opinion. One which has little merit and is completely irrelevant however. This is not an event open to the public. It's an event held on private property.That is quite possibly true and for this you should be angry with Harrahs which sold the exclusive rights and not at Pokernews which bought the exclusive rights.Personally I think Tony G got shafted by Harrahs. If Harrahs is going to sell "exclusive rights" then pokernews should be the only organization with any access to the tournament floor. I suspect Tony G (or whoever worked the deal) is a poor negotiator and got a poorly defined exclusive. If it were my paying for the rights I'd want every other press agency waiting outside on the sidewalk.

You cannot copyright a fact like someone's chip count. Just like you can't copyright a basketball score or a phone number. It doesn't matter if it is on the internet or not (I assume the counts are written on a notebook first, so they are already tangible).I agree. Harrah's is just as much to blame as Tony (and I actually enjoy watching him, this has nothing to do with him personally). My point was that I don't feel sorry for him because, in my opinion, the net result of all this is coverage that isn't as good.I think the best solution is for Harrah's to collect the counts and report them. At some point, they'll have to have the technology to keep track of chips on the table and it can be automated.