It's Time To Play...

[sandwedge 30]

Back in September, two weeks into my new career as a poker dealer, I was asked if I would like to train to be a supervisor. I said yes, so now I am a dual rate supervisor, which means that I deal sometimes and I supervise sometimes.I know that sometimes we have threads about various rulings that everyone sees in the casinos, and I really enjoy reading them. I've come to realize that no matter how much you study the rules of poker, there will be circumstances that just aren't covered in the rules (at least not in my poker room's manual).From time to time (as long as this thread goes well), I'll post a situation that I am confronted with, and let y'all debate what the ruling should be. I'll post my ruling in white, possibly along with an explanation as to my thought process.So here's my first one...You are called by a dealer to a 2-5 no limit game. The board has been dealt, and there are two sets of hole cards, face up on the table. One set of hole cards has nobody behind it. The dealer says that, during the hand, one player moved all in, covered his cards with a protector, and rushed off to the bathroom. He was called. After the river was dealt, the player next to the absent player reached over and turned his cards up, showing AA. The player who called has shown 66. The aces held up as the best hand.As this is being explained, Bathroom Boy is returning to the room, and says that he just couldn't hold it in any longer.To whom do you award the pot? (My decision in white):I awarded the pot to Bathroom Boy. After he moved all in, it was impossible for him to have any further action. As much as I've looked in our manual, I can't find any rule that states a player MUST be in their seat during the hand. If he had left with a possibility of further action pending, I would have said that his hand should be dead. I also thought of the 1998 WSOP ME, when Kevin McBride moved in, then went to the bathroom while Scotty Nguyen looked on in disbelief.There wasn't any argument from the players at the table. However, the dealer wasn't too happy about it

[Cappy37 0]

(sorry, couldn't help myself)No further action after an all in move, absent player gains nothing from leaving the table, correct?I can't envision not giving him the pot when he's put all his chips in the middle and can table the best hand. He never mucked. Is it the dealer's responsibility to table the hand of an absent player? I would like to know this for my own info.

[sandwedge 30]

Cappy, I saw that you replied, and started laughing before I even clicked the post.Man, I wish I was rich and didn't care if I lost my job. I'd go buy some depends and toss them to Bathroom Boy when he showed up at the casino tonight.

[Cappy37 0]

Cappy, I saw that you replied, and started laughing before I even clicked the post.Man, I wish I was rich and didn't care if I lost my job. I'd go buy some depends and toss them to Bathroom Boy when he showed up at the casino tonight.

Yeah, I was kind of ticked it's actually "Depend" instead of "Depends".. If it was the latter, I could have made it my entire post. As is, I actually posed a question at the end of my reply, which you.. didn't answer. bad floorman!

[SCYUKON 0]

We can gather these posts over a period of time, and due to their useful question and answer style, put out a book called "Sandwedge on Supervising". Hopefully have enough for 3 volumes, get known as the poker supervisor bible, get rich, MM.Actually though, not a bad idea to share your rulings. Will be helpful to players and supervisors alike, for sure.

[ROBBBIGG 0]

I thought this was a pretty easy decision. He moved all in so his ability to do act was complete. Flip up the hands and give the pot to the winner. Why would his hand be declared dead? Does the dealer hate bathrooms or pocket aces?

[psujohn 0]

Interesting ruling.In general I think if someone gets up from the table their hand is considered dead. If I was the other guy in the hand I'd call the floor over before acting. If bathroom boy got up before he was called I'd be tempted to declare his hand dead.Lets say the action goes push, call. No one leaves. Dealer puts up the river card. Caller shows his hand. Pusher mucks. Clearly the hand goes to the caller. Let's say the action goes push, call. Dealer puts up the river. Caller says "I play the board" and turns over two irrelevant cards. Pusher says "I play the board too" and holds onto his cards. The dealer typically says something like "You need to show your cards to be awarded any part of the pot" but dealer is expressly forbidden from reaching over and tabling his cards. No one else should be tabling his cards either.As prickish as it sounds in my mind getting up from the table is equivalent to mucking. Since the pusher is still able to muck (this being a cash game) and is still required to perform an action - table his hand - he cannot leave the table without having his hand declared dead."Sorry sir but leaving the table when you have cards is equivalent to folding and your hand has been declared dead."In all honesty though I'd be looking to get a read from the caller. If he didn't seem to mind I'd be looking to over rule the letter of the law with the "best interests of the game" ruling.

[Balloon guy 158]

Which player tips better?

[savagerebel 0]

Do supervisors get a cut of the tips?

[Money022 0]

I think it makes sense to award the pot to the winning hand. If the player with 66 had an issue with the player leaving the table due to not being able to get a read, then he should just wait for bathroom boy to get back. Besides, in most of the casinos I've been to there are bathrooms very close to the card rooms. Which means I can get back in a few minutes...sometimes less if I don't wash my hands. But that really depends on if I'm going number 1 or number 2. If it's two, well then I'm setting up shop and that's a whole different scenario. Actually I've derailed. Point being, there's no additional action left for bathroom boy with the exception of tabling his hand. Which is the basis for my support of your ruling. Had it been required that he make another move, then anyone at the table should be able to call the clock on his hand. Personally, if I was the opponent with 66, I would have no problem seeing the pot go the other way.

[Socrates 0]

Common sense and a little logic would say that it goes to bathroom boy. If he is entitled to lose the hand when he is away from the table, he is entitled to win the pot as well. It can't work one way and not the other.

[Dratj 0]

Bathroom boy is the winner. Although he's a tard for going during a hand. He could hold it another min. and then go.

[coesillian 0]

but how do we know he has the winning hand at show down? Somebody else had to flip the cards for him.His hand should be mucked if he's not there to flip them and since the dealer can't do it, nobody else should be able to do it for him either.If he's is not there to turn over his hand at showdown it should be declared dead.

[Jariso13 1]

Definitely the guy in the bathroom. It would be ridiculous to give the pot to the other guy.

[Cappy37 0]

Which player tips better?

How do you do it, sir? How do you always wait until the general public comes up with the most logical, rational answer to the posed question...And then just pull the mat from under us with the obvious answer? nh, as always.

[psujohn 0]

but how do we know he has the winning hand at show down? Somebody else had to flip the cards for him.His hand should be mucked if he's not there to flip them and since the dealer can't do it, nobody else should be able to do it for him either.If he's is not there to turn over his hand at showdown it should be declared dead.

Hence my basis for saying that his hand really should be dead. Though the 66 guy should have the option to go ahead and wait for him to return. And if I were the 66 guy I'd have no problem with bathroom boy getting the pot. Though I'd like to think I wouldn't call there unless we're talking about a set over set situation.

[coesillian 0]

what happens if nobody turns the hand over for him while he is gone, what then...

[bbgun 0]

what happens if nobody turns the hand over for him while he is gone, what then...

That's what I was thinking. How long do you wait for Bathroom Boy to return? What if the Cirque de Soleil show just emptied and the bathroom is slammed? Do you wait more than 5 minutes? 10 minutes? What's the ruling then? And what's the record for most consecutive questions to end a post?

[13CARDS 0]

PLEASE BAN ME, MODS !!

[Cappy37 0]

In the op, once another player tables Bathroom Boy's cards, they should be declared dead. One player, one hand. IMO, the cards should have been left face down and protected until either Bathroom Boy returns or someone calls time on him.

Yikes. Obviously if this was a tournament you could just give the "tabler" a time penalty. I can't imagine penalizing bathroom boy for failing to "protect" his hand from someone else blatently violating table ettiquete.

[psujohn 0]

In the op, once another player tables Bathroom Boy's cards, they should be declared dead. One player, one hand. IMO, the cards should have been left face down and protected until either Bathroom Boy returns or someone calls time on him.

Harsh but in a way it points out that a player with all his chips in the middle has yet another responsibility and that is to protect his hand. He did cap the cards.At the very least the guy who turned over the cards should be warned not to touch another players cards.And really if bathroom boy doesn't win the pot it'll just teach him not to wait until the last possible second to go pee. Or to avoid the chili on the buffet line.

[navybuttons 15]

but how do we know he has the winning hand at show down? Somebody else had to flip the cards for him.His hand should be mucked if he's not there to flip them and since the dealer can't do it, nobody else should be able to do it for him either.If he's is not there to turn over his hand at showdown it should be declared dead.

THANK GOD SOMEONE KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT!