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luckbox mcgee needs a plan.


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Preflop raiser is 32/14/2.37 after 400 hands. This occurred at the beginning of the session, but after playing 100 or so hands with him, I realized he was the toughest (best) player at the table by far. His VPIP also dropped to 29.Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cxPreflop: Hero is BB with 8:heart:, 2:heart:. CO posts a blind of $5. 3 folds, Hero calls, MP1 calls.Flop: (9.40 SB) Q:diamond:, A:spade:, 2:spade: (4 players)Hero checks, MP1 checks, MP3 bets, Button folds, Hero calls, MP1 calls.Turn: (6.20 BB) 8:spade: (3 players)What's the plan from here on out?

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I'm curious. Why are we calling this pre-flop?

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I'm curious. Why are we calling this pre-flop?
I'm calling with any 2 suited from bb vs a raise and 2 other callers. Kinda like limping in the sb with any two suited.
Far be it from me to be telling you what to do. I'm only a proven winner at .5/1 and 1/2 and have yet to prove that I can actually play this game against decent players. That said, I respectfully think that this may be a leak. My argument would be that there are likely better hands out there with a raise and two callers than if you're just completing from the small blind. I have to review SSHE, but I really don't like doing this.
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If I call preflop, and getting 7:1 I probably would, now. But based on SSHE, I wouldn't.I'm shaky on the flop, but geesh, likely getting 11+ : 1... I call.Now on the turn, I hit a card that I called the flop for.I c/r here.I call any # of bets back to me.River should be clear after the turn action.I play .5/1 and $1/2.I'm not sure I"m allowed to post here.

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With the CO posting and the button calling two cold you're getting 7.5 to 1 to call from the BB. That's equivelent to calling from the SB in an unraised pot with SIX limpers, so I can't hate the pre-flop call.As for what line to take ... how about leading at the turn and calling one raise but not two?My thinking is as follows: A check-raise sucks if a) MP1 bets and MP3 raises making it two back to you (can we really 3-bet or cold call bottom two pair with a flush on the board?), or you check-raise and get 3-bet (not as bad as the first scenario but still no fun).On the other hand if you lead and it ends up being 3-bet, you can pretty safely muck.If you lead and it's only one back to you, you'll be getting odds to improve to the full house.You can then reevaluate on the river depending on reads, but I don't like checking here as it feels like it might give too many ways that we'll be forced to lay down what a) could be the best hand or B) is draw-worthy.Just my two ...

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A checkraise best protects your hand as you're charging MP1 2 bets if he has a spade. So checkraising probly is the best line.Calling a raise with 82 s has to be a leak imo. Maybe the 1 more person came along as well so it was going to be 5 handed but out of position I think it becomes a lot more difficult to chase flush draws successfully.

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Bleh. I dont think you're folding any hands that you're vulnerable to when you improve.Since you need to improve virtually every time here, I'd try to do so as cheaply as possible.Im alright with defending the BB with any suited if it looks like a blind steal and the table is loose.For the turn, i bet/call and check/call most rivers unimproved.

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I don't know if the PF call is +EV or not, but I doubt it's more than a fraction of a BB either way....I think I bet/fold the turn (unless MP1 calls and MP3 raises, giving you odds to call the turn and chase a boat). An A probably calls you down, and I can't see you getting raised by a worse hand.Check-raising is better if MP1 has a spade, MP3 does not, you presently have the best hand, and MP1 would call if you bet out but would fold if you check-raise. I think that parlay is unlikely enough that it's better on average to just bet out.

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That said, I respectfully think that this may be a leak. My argument would be that there are likely better hands out there with a raise and two callers than if you're just completing from the small blind. I have to review SSHE, but I really don't like doing this.
I don't think this is covered in SSHE, but the same basic principal applies. While my implied odds are slightly lower because I put in a sb instead of 1/2 a small bet, they aren't much lower because raised pf pots tend to generate more action.Someone else mentioned that CO posted a blind. I missed it, but this is even more incentive to call since I'm now getting 8:1.
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Interesting comments. In the actual hand, I went for the c/r and the turn got checked through (disaster for my hand). I bet the river and both opponents folded.I'm wondering whether or not it is better to lead the turn. MP3 may be just firing a continuation bet on the flop, and may give up once that scary turn card hits. Having htis turn checked through is a disaster for my hand.I'm still undecided on which turn play is better.

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that turn never gets checked through screech...i think you played it fine.
i have a few thoughts on this hand.first, i find it hilarious that two of us have posted questions relating to 82 suited within a day or two. 82 suited? sheez.pre-flop is fine IMO. yes, there are likely better hands out there then there might be in an unraised pot, but since we're looking to flop two pair or better or a flush draw, we only have to worry about hands like A8 - and there's no more reason to think there is a hand like that in a raised pot. therefore i think this is similar to completing in the SB.the flop call i think is weak, but to one bet i guess you can't fold. on the turn i don't think you CR. that isn't being results-oriented (although that does make oh-so-easy) - it just seems like better value to bet out.if you CR, you are risking getting CR'ed by QQ, AA or AQ. a lot of decent players will assume you flopped a set on that turn and fold, or if he does not have an ace or better he is folding there. as you said also, a check-through is terrible for you. not likely here, but not impossible as well.in betting out, you more cheaply find out of you're up against it (being a set/flush/whatever) and you get value from your hand as well.i think the turn is close, but since the 2 is such a disguised card i think you bet/call. if you get raised and the river is not a spade, ace, queen or king, i think you bet/call again.danielnote - i just noticed that CR'ing forces MP1 to face two bets and really ups your equity if he's got a spade. given that, i guess a CR is probably correct here. oops.
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Well, i can think of one situation where the turn occasionally gets checked through.When you have everyone beat.
AJ checks here? What about KQ or KK? AT? did you see the guys aggro factor?
That's what I was thinking. I'm results oriented though.BTW, this guy was one of the best players I have ever come across (which may not be much since I haven't been above 5/10). This was the first time I've ever had to deal with a LAG that I knew played miles beyond my game.
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AJ checks here? What about KQ or KK? AT? did you see the guys aggro factor?
See "occasionally". Meaning, not every time.Im not saying if you have the best hand it's getting checked through. Im saying that those are the only times that it gets checked through... and it basically never gets checked through if you're behind.
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I'm curious. Why are we calling this pre-flop?
I'm calling with any 2 suited from bb vs a raise and 2 other callers. Kinda like limping in the sb with any two suited.
Sure, except that implied odds are cut in half, relative to completing the SB in an unraised pot, and that 82s is an implied-odds hand.
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I'm curious. Why are we calling this pre-flop?
I'm calling with any 2 suited from bb vs a raise and 2 other callers. Kinda like limping in the sb with any two suited.
Sure, except that implied odds are cut in half, relative to completing the SB in an unraised pot, and that 82s is an implied-odds hand.
I don't think this is covered in SSHE, but the same basic principal applies. While my implied odds are slightly lower because I put in a sb instead of 1/2 a small bet, they aren't much lower because raised pf pots tend to generate more action.
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I'm curious. Why are we calling this pre-flop?
I'm calling with any 2 suited from bb vs a raise and 2 other callers. Kinda like limping in the sb with any two suited.
Sure, except that implied odds are cut in half, relative to completing the SB in an unraised pot, and that 82s is an implied-odds hand.
I don't think this is covered in SSHE, but the same basic principal applies. While my implied odds are slightly lower because I put in a sb instead of 1/2 a small bet, they aren't much lower because raised pf pots tend to generate more action.
Yes, I saw that. Do pots that are raised preflop generate twice as much post-flop action as unraised pots? Unless they do, my argument stands.
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One thing that you will realize when you move up the limits is that players play their strong hands uber aggresive. You lost 1BB in that hand, if this is a constant pattern, you will go broke in the long run. When you hit your two pair, jam it. In fact, I put in a raise on the flop to define the other hands. In truth you lost out on basically 2 BB.

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Yes, I saw that. Do pots that are raised preflop generate twice as much post-flop action as unraised pots? Unless they do, my argument stands.
4-handed, they almost do. That's what my argument was.Another way to look at this hand, is that I'm getting 8:4.1 on my call. With implied odds, I don't even have to win this hand 10% of the time to make my call profitable. Against 3 opponents, I will win more than this.
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You lost 1BB in that hand, if this is a constant pattern, you will go broke in the long run. When you hit your two pair, jam it. In fact, I put in a raise on the flop to define the other hands. In truth you lost out on basically 2 BB.
i respectfully disagree with everything i quoted.
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One thing that you will realize when you move up the limits is that players play their strong hands uber aggresive. You lost 1BB in that hand, if this is a constant pattern, you will go broke in the long run. When you hit your two pair, jam it. In fact, I put in a raise on the flop to define the other hands. In truth you lost out on basically 2 BB.
Thanks for the advice, but I think you're wrong (especially on the flop play). Given that my villian raised pf, and there are 2 paint cards and 3 spades on the turn, he will bet this turn quite often. And why should I define my hand on the flop with a raise? This is very bad and just spewing chips for no reason IMO.
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