mikeysong 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 What do you think is the best way to extract value?fwiw, I'm not very happy with the line I took. I usually lead out flop actually but this time I opted to cr and represent your standard flush draw.The problem w/the turn line is it's so damn strong that tbh I don't think I get called by anything I beat unless the guy is super tilting or has a nut draw.No Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $3/$65 playersConverterStack sizes:UTG: $631CO: $280.40Button: $493Hero: $591BB: $727Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is SB with 4 4 UTG raises to $24, CO calls, Button calls, Hero calls, BB folds.Flop: Q 4 8 ($102, 4 players)Hero checks, UTG checks, CO checks, Button checks.Turn: 7 ($102, 4 players)Hero checks, UTG bets $72, CO folds, Button calls, Hero raises all-in $567 Link to post Share on other sites
CobaltBlue 662 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Yeah...lead the flop a decent portion of the time...though it seems likely with 3 opponents you'd run into a bet and maybe a bet with a call behind. Guess it depends on how active the villains are. After the flop checks through, I go b/c or b/3bet depending on my assessment of the opponent's raise. Link to post Share on other sites
tskillz187 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 How often are people folding pf here?As for the hand itself I think what you did is okay, but I like Cobalt's response. Link to post Share on other sites
Dictius 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 what hands are going to call this other than a flush? Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 How often are people folding pf here?Is "neverevereverinamillionyearsever" one word? Link to post Share on other sites
mikeysong 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Author Share Posted January 23, 2008 whoa yeah. NEVER fold this pf with this many callers. I call this vs. one raise!dictius - nice avatar. I saw those guys live and hopefully they call w/a pair+fd Link to post Share on other sites
tskillz187 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 I suck at reading HH. If it were heads up, this is a fold sometimes, yes? Link to post Share on other sites
mikeysong 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Author Share Posted January 23, 2008 I suck at reading HH. If it were heads up, this is a fold sometimes, yes?if you have a nitty image, yesif you have a retarded image like me, no! Link to post Share on other sites
tskillz187 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 if you have a nitty image, yesif you have a retarded image like me, no!I'm sure you know this, but why would you ever slowplay if you have a retarded image? Your bets have no value anyways, now you can punish them. Link to post Share on other sites
mikeysong 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Author Share Posted January 23, 2008 I'm sure you know this, but why would you ever slowplay if you have a retarded image? Your bets have no value anyways, now you can punish them.i dont' always want to lead out the flop 100% of the time.Turn imo I should have led but I figured they were so weak I'd let one guy bluff. Still don't like my line though Link to post Share on other sites
krup24 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 i bet the flop almost always. the days slowplaying set at the lower levels are over. fastplay is the new slowplay. but then again im no value extractor Link to post Share on other sites
NoBBiR 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Is "neverevereverinamillionyearsever" one word?Whenyouhavetypedlikethisinthepast,we'llletyoudowhatyoulike. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Flop: Q 4 8 ($102, 4 players)Hero checks, UTG checks, CO checks, Button checks.Turn: 7 ($102, 4 players)Hero checks, UTG bets $72, CO folds, Button calls, Hero raises all-in $567 We've got 4 people seeing a flop with a PF raiser. We need to go ahead and lead this flop to get chipflow started on the flop. I don't like your push with the flush card hitting the turn and 4 people checking the flop. I think that someone has a made flush here often enough that you're going to finish behind in the hand often enough to not be profitable. Link to post Share on other sites
cwik 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 i dont' always want to lead out the flop 100% of the time.Turn imo I should have led but I figured they were so weak I'd let one guy bluff. Still don't like my line thoughI agree, I am always leading the turn here. Not really sure what calls the C/R that your ahead of that doesn't bet the flop, but I suppose it is good to protect from lots of draws on the board. Link to post Share on other sites
mikeysong 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Author Share Posted January 23, 2008 We've got 4 people seeing a flop with a PF raiser. We need to go ahead and lead this flop to get chipflow started on the flop. I don't like your push with the flush card hitting the turn and 4 people checking the flop. I think that someone has a made flush here often enough that you're going to finish behind in the hand often enough to not be profitable.no, someone rarely has a made flush here.as cwik said, the best way to play this is to just go for 2 streets of value given flop play Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Whenyouhavetypedlikethisinthepast,we'llletyoudowhatyoulike.Now that's just uncalled for, really. Link to post Share on other sites
ah2388 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 ok, and if we lead this flop and get raised, what is our action? Link to post Share on other sites
krup24 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 ok, and if we lead this flop and get raised, what is our action?depends who raises us. can be a smooth call or reraise. never a fold though. Link to post Share on other sites
AimHigher 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 ok, and if we lead this flop and get raised, what is our action?We re-raise. Link to post Share on other sites
DonCoryon 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 I like the c/r here based on the position of the preflop raiser. Preflop raiser is on the immediate left of the OP so there is a good chance, given the flop texture, that the preflop raiser c-bets and the OP traps one or two callers in the middle with a c/r. I think not leading on this flop, with this many opponents, has the most EV. Even though it didn't work out this time. Link to post Share on other sites
dms26 3 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 ok, and if we lead this flop and get raised, what is our action?Based on stack sizes I say we push and expect to get called a lot. Either by flush draws+overs or AQ/KK/AA type hands that are putting us on a weaker top pair or a draw. I wouldn't expect many to fold those hands and others hands shouldn't be putting anymore money into the pot if we just flatcall and donk the turn. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 ok, and if we lead this flop and get raised, what is our action?I think raises will come from one pair hands here: AQ AA KK etc. We can smooth call and let them bite off more on the turn. Link to post Share on other sites
mikeysong 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Author Share Posted January 23, 2008 I think raises will come from one pair hands here: AQ AA KK etc. We can smooth call and let them bite off more on the turn.nowe're out of positionshove Link to post Share on other sites
pokerinc 0 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 so if you lead the flop and were called, what would you do w/ the diamond errr....turn *drinking heeeeavvvvilllyyyy*? still getting it all in?Been interested in this lately as I think I've been shoving too many turns. Link to post Share on other sites
mikeysong 0 Posted January 25, 2008 Author Share Posted January 25, 2008 so if you lead the flop and were called, what would you do w/ the diamond errr....turn *drinking heeeeavvvvilllyyyy*? still getting it all in?Been interested in this lately as I think I've been shoving too many turns.bet/fold Link to post Share on other sites
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