StilettoNole 0 Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 MP is a pretty good player. I have been playing with him for a while and he was playing pretty solid. I am most likely viewed as pretty TAG, as I have only showed down winners.How do I get the most value from my hand here? I know that with an open ended straight flush draw that I should be raising the flop, but every time I do, I brick out on the turn and river. What should I do here?Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)BB ($30.15)UTG ($90.05)MP ($45.10)Hero ($96.20)Button ($62.40)SB ($15.50)Preflop: Hero is CO with , . 1 fold, MP calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.50, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.Flop: ($2) , , (4 players)SB checks, BB checks, MP bets $2, Hero calls $2, SB folds, BB folds.Turn: ($6) (2 players)MP bets $2, Hero calls $2.River: ($10) (2 players)MP bets $2, Hero raises to $8.5, MP calls $6.50.Final Pot: $27Can I raise more the river, or is this about the max I am getting from villain here? Link to post Share on other sites
krup24 0 Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Can I raise more the river, or is this about the max I am getting from villain here?i don't think ur getting much more off a queenyou can however raise the flop. Link to post Share on other sites
Temporary Nuts 1 Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Fire the flop, fire the turn, in fact, fire every opportunity you have postflop Link to post Share on other sites
Sheiky 0 Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 I'd raise Pre, raise the flop, raise the turn, and er, raise the river. Link to post Share on other sites
Metternich 0 Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 I fold preflop, but other than that I'm raising every street. Not raising the flop/turn are really poor plays IMO. Link to post Share on other sites
simo_8ball 0 Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Haven't looked at the hand yet, but bet/raise/reraise/shove. If you're on the turn for some reason (why didn't you get it in on the flop?), bet/raise/reraise if you have fold equity or call if you don't. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 I start jacking that baby up on the flop. We're going to the river with this, so jack it up again on the turn. That gives us the latitude to bet bigger on the river, because we've swollen the pot along the way. Link to post Share on other sites
StilettoNole 0 Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 Yeah, I know that I should have been raising from the flop... it just seems that everytime I have a monster draw that I miss, so I was hesitant to build a pot. And of course, when I don't, I nail my nut card and the pot isn't as big as it could have been. Just making sure that I should be raising all the way with this. Thanks guys. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Yeah, I know that I should have been raising from the flop... it just seems that everytime I have a monster draw that I miss, so I was hesitant to build a pot. And of course, when I don't, I nail my nut card and the pot isn't as big as it could have been. Just making sure that I should be raising all the way with this. Thanks guys.So you cost yourself money either way. ... One way we make money is by taking advantage of fold equity. If we raise this flop and the villain folds, that's OK. If we raise and the villain calls and we make our hand, that's OK. If we go into "calldown and see" mode and the villain gets away when it's obvious that we made our hand, then we've lost value. If we go into "calldown and see" mode, we're lighting our money on fire. So while we talk a lot about wanting to get our money in with the "best hand," we need to remember that sometimes, statistically -- like here -- the "best hand" isn't necessarily a "made hand" on the flop. But we have two shots at essentially half the deck, we're likely to "make" our hand. So we shouldn't be shy about getting the money in ASAP. Link to post Share on other sites
Dictius 0 Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 I fold preflop, but other than that I'm raising every street. Not raising the flop/turn are really poor plays IMO. So you cost yourself money either way. ... One way we make money is by taking advantage of fold equity. If we raise this flop and the villain folds, that's OK. If we raise and the villain calls and we make our hand, that's OK. If we go into "calldown and see" mode and the villain gets away when it's obvious that we made our hand, then we've lost value. If we go into "calldown and see" mode, we're lighting our money on fire. So while we talk a lot about wanting to get our money in with the "best hand," we need to remember that sometimes, statistically -- like here -- the "best hand" isn't necessarily a "made hand" on the flop. But we have two shots at essentially half the deck, we're likely to "make" our hand. So we shouldn't be shy about getting the money in ASAP.Double QFT Link to post Share on other sites
NoBBiR 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Raise the flop ALL the time.Raise the river to $10.That is all. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Haven't looked at the hand yet, but bet/raise/reraise/shove. If you're on the turn for some reason (why didn't you get it in on the flop?), bet/raise/reraise if you have fold equity or call if you don't.lol, this is my reaction to any thread that says "open ended straight flush draw" in the title, lol.My immediate reaction is "all in". Link to post Share on other sites
Andynice20 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Open ended str8 flush draw after the flop is one of the only hands you have more than a 50% (actually almost 60%) chance to hit your card (17 outs if I'm counting right). Bet, raise, re-raise, shove, do whatever you can to get chips in there! Link to post Share on other sites
simo_8ball 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 (17 outs if I'm counting right)You aren't. 9 flush + 6 straight outs = 15. Link to post Share on other sites
No_Neck 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 not sure if you know this but you basically have the nuts on the flop. Get as much money in as soon as possible. Link to post Share on other sites
Andynice20 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 You aren't. 9 flush + 6 straight outs = 15.I knew that didn't look right! Thanks. I guess I was doing 9+8 Link to post Share on other sites
rvrchsrhtr 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 anyone else notice almost every hand OP posts it's check call check call check call check call cmon man get AGGRESSIVE for once!......................... lol Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 not sure if you know this but you basically have the nuts on the flop. Get as much money in as soon as possible.Yeah.You get full value for this hand by getting it AI on the flop against AQ or AA or KK or whatever he has. I know in your other thread, you said you're moving up in limits, but if you're not gonna jam the shit outta this hand and be thrilled about doing it, then drop back to the lower limit. Link to post Share on other sites
AimHigher 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 You HAVE to raise this flop.Let me illustrate how much value you have potentially missed in this hand. Pot is $4 on the flop when it gets to you. You raise to $6, he calls (he is getting 2.5:1 on the call). The pot is now $14 on the turn instead of $6.That is an extra $8 before betting on the turn even starts. If betting continues on both the turn and the river, it is SO much more when the pot gets to show down. Your hand here plays very strong, you are pretty much coinflipping with top two, and you are only a 3:2 dog against a set. You have two shots at hitting 15 outs, you can't be bricking nearly as often as you think. Link to post Share on other sites
StilettoNole 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Author Share Posted January 23, 2008 You all are right. I played this bad. And I have to get it in. Next time I post a open ended straight flush draw hand you will see me pushing. Thank you for the replies. Link to post Share on other sites
NoBBiR 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 If you're not raising the OESFD on the flop, what the hell are you raising? Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 If you're not raising the OESFD on the flop, what the hell are you raising?Top set, nut straight, nut flush. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Top set, nut straight, nut flush.Add OESFD to the mix and we've constructed the perfect nit. Link to post Share on other sites
gfdsa146 0 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 lol, this is my reaction to any thread that says "open ended straight flush draw" in the title, lol.My immediate reaction is "all in". Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Agree with above. There's not a lot of strategy to it. BET BET BET lol, this is my reaction to any thread that says "open ended straight flush draw" in the title, lol.My immediate reaction is "all in". Link to post Share on other sites
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