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Aa Vs Gus Hansen's A8 On Pad


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#1 BigDMcGee

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Posted 20 September 2007 - 07:47 PM

That was a really fold by Gus, 'cause the only hand he can't beat is AA. I think that showing gus the card is what eventually led him to folding, 'cause it seemed like he wanted to call prior to that. If you had it to do over again, knowing that he had a hand that strong, would you have shown him the card? It seems to me showing a world class player one card is dangerous and you give him too much information to me.
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#2 showstopper24

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Posted 20 September 2007 - 07:49 PM

I didn't watch the episode too closely, but I thought they said that on PAD that they weren't allowed to show one card. And then Daniel and Lederer started talking about it.
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#3 PrtyPSux

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Posted 20 September 2007 - 08:26 PM

I was actually going to write a long detailed post about this hand, I wonder what DN thinks about it..... I think that Daniel's thoughts were that Gus had middle pair and would probably fold, HAD he known that gus had A8 (which is hard b/c A8 instacalls there often) then he probably wouldn't have shown him. if DN thinks theres a good shot that Gus folds a 7 then showing his card wont hurt at all, here's why....he's going to see the A and then think "well, he wouldnt show me AA unless he's 3rd leveling me, he would def do this if he had AK or AQ and wanted me to fold, because either card will look like an overpair, he could have A7 or A2 and either card is dangerous as well" there are soo many combos that go through his head once they see that one card, and a lot of them are crushed by A8 ie AK A7 A2 AQ and A8 chops, once he shows the A the only had that has him beat is AA.....The only thing I can see is that showing that one card after Gus says something like "it doesnt seem like you're getting out of line" looks a big anxious, like you're making your last effort at getting a call before he mucks.I really wish you could do this in all tourneys, in a tourney at binions I spiked a gutshot on the turn vs an obv TP the guy thought forever and was about to fold until I flashed the 3 which didnt make too much sense in a 24T58 boared, I got called by T9....

#4 JoblessBast

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 01:54 AM

View PostPrtyPSux, on Thursday, September 20th, 2007, 9:26 PM, said:

I think that Daniel's thoughts were that Gus had middle pair and would probably fold, HAD he known that gus had A8 (which is hard b/c A8 instacalls there often) then he probably wouldn't have shown him.
That's what I was going to say.Once DN showed the A, I thought there was no way Gus would call. It looked too much like AA between the limp on the button and the "you pick" which card to turn over. DN probably wouldn't have shoved with AK or worse, and Gus could only hope for a tie. But what do I know...
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#5 Cappy37

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 05:32 AM

If you got it on Tivo, rewatch it.. Tuan Le asks gus if he has a chance at a backdoor flush, among other egregious tamperings.Regardless, it may have been the best hand in PAD history and makes an excellent case for being able to show a card in a tournament.Tuan Le not going broke to howard in that boat vs. boat hand was pretty sick, too.Seriously, someone rewatch and try and tell me Tuan Le wasn't *Way* out of line at the tail end of the AA vs. A8 hand.
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#6 DanielNegreanu

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 11:47 AM

If I knew Gus had A8 or a hand even close to that strong I wouldn't have done that. I read him as pretty weak. Having said that, in later episodes you'll see me make the same play and bluff out Hellmuth... twice. Also, if you watched High Stakes Poker this week you'd of seen me bluff out Sammy Farha using this play.
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#7 socalpoker_j

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 11:52 AM

View PostDanielNegreanu, on Friday, September 21st, 2007, 12:47 PM, said:

If I knew Gus had A8 or a hand even close to that strong I wouldn't have done that. I read him as pretty weak. Having said that, in later episodes you'll see me make the same play and bluff out Hellmuth... twice. Also, if you watched High Stakes Poker this week you'd of seen me bluff out Sammy Farha using this play.
What was the point of the minraise? I've seen this play used quite a bit in live play. If you made it 45-50, do you think Sammy would be more than likely to make a play back at you?

#8 HubDub04

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 12:07 PM

Daniel, I was also very intrigued by this hand simply because of the way you played it, and the fold Gus made. When I saw the flop, the first thing I thought of was that Gus is going to obv call basically any repop that you make. He slowed down and I think he was going to probably call if you didn't show him the card.My question is, were you trying to do a little bit of reverse psychology with Gus by showing him that card? Getting him to think, "why would Daniel show me an A, if he had AA and said pick 1, doesn't that basically give away his hand" and then having him think you could possibly have the other A8 or AK or something of that nature.Either way, I think you both played the hand well.Any insight would be great.
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#9 DanielNegreanu

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 01:31 PM

View Postsocalpoker_j, on Friday, September 21st, 2007, 12:52 PM, said:

What was the point of the minraise? I've seen this play used quite a bit in live play. If you made it 45-50, do you think Sammy would be more than likely to make a play back at you?
Why raise anymore than that? He bet 15k and I made it 30k because it accomplishes the SAME thing 50k would except with less risk. It's all part of the whole "small ball" approach that I'll go into great detail in with www.pokervt.com. As for he Gus hand, yeah, I figured that Gus might think I wouldn't do that with AA since as Howard said, usually when people do that they DON'T have it.
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#10 serge

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 01:40 PM

View PostDanielNegreanu, on Friday, September 21st, 2007, 2:31 PM, said:

Why raise anymore than that? He bet 15k and I made it 30k because it accomplishes the SAME think 50k would except with less risk. It's all part of the whole "small ball" approach that I'll go into great detail in with www.pokervt.com. As for he Gus hand, yeah, I figured that Gus might think I wouldn't do that with AA since as Howard said, usually when people do that they DON'T have it.
The main to thing to grasp from this hand is the importance of being able to show one card at the showdown in tournaments...This just adds another level to the game and makes it so much more interesting..As Daniel said on the episode it also makes from great tv....Hopefully this rule will be adopted in the big televised tournaments.As per the laydown, I am not sure Gus would of laid down the hand had he not seen the Ace in this case....All in all a very interesting hand and this is why POKER AFTER DARK is on the top of my TIVO
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#11 gfdsa146

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Posted 22 September 2007 - 07:52 AM

Another thing that i think gave it away was when you told HIM to choose the card. One possible reason you'd leave the card choosing up to him is that it didnt matter which one he picked, because both of the cards were the same. So as soon as you flipped over an Ace, he could have figured that the other one was an Ace as well because of you allowing him to choose the card.Jack Strauss did something similar, except he made the other guy pay him $25 lolhttp://en.wikipedia....iki/Jack_Straus

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Straus is credited with one of the most celebrated bluffs of all time. While playing in a high-stakes no limit Texas Hold'em cash game, Straus had won several large pots in a row and so decided that he would raise the next hand pre-flop with any two cards. When he looked down he found that he had been dealt 7-2 offsuit, the worst starting hand in Texas Hold'em, but, playing a 'rush', he raised anyway. Straus' raise was called by a single opponent and the flop came 7-3-3. This was a good flop for a 7-2, so Straus bet out. However his tight opponent made a large raise, indicating a likely overpair to the board. Straus knew he was almost certainly behind, but he decided that he might be able to beat his opponent by representing trip threes, so he called the large raise.The turn was a 2, for a board of 7-3-3-2, which was no help to Straus with a better pair already on the board, but he made a huge bet anyway. This set his opponent thinking deeply. Straus knew that he was desperate to avoid a call, as his chances of drawing out to win on the river were very slim. After a few minutes, Straus offered his opponent a proposition. He told him that for $25, he could choose either one of Straus's hole cards and Straus would show it to him. The guy considered for a while, then tossed Straus $25 and chose a card. Strauss showed him the deuce.After another long pause, his opponent eventually figured that Straus would only make such an offer if both his hole-cards were deuces, therefore giving him a full house, deuces over treys. He reluctantly folded, and Jack Straus entered poker folklore as one of the most creative bluffers of all time.


#12 CobaltBlue

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Posted 02 October 2007 - 01:35 PM

If Daniel said, "Okay...pick either one...no, wait...I can't do that...I'll just show this one," does Gus have to change his thinking?

#13 thebottomline

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 03:37 PM

View PostCobaltBlue, on Tuesday, October 2nd, 2007, 10:35 PM, said:

If Daniel said, "Okay...pick either one...no, wait...I can't do that...I'll just show this one," does Gus have to change his thinking?
I was thinking the exact same thing. OR, letting Gus pick the card and saying, "I can't show you that one, but I'll show this one", if that would change Gus' thoughts or if Gus could look straight through that.
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#14 TracysPal

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Posted 10 October 2007 - 07:50 PM

This b me first post - after play n Daniel at PokerStars this evening - he gots me heads up and he beat me and me parot after a long battle. He b nice fellow n hope 2 play him again -- may b he learn a thing r 2 this evening -- I know this -- he don't like RUM. But, that b OK - he still young man. Tell me if this goes through - OK? and how do i gets me pic posted her 4 all the chick e dos to c and call me -- if that be bad thought - tell me and i b fast learner OK C u at porker stars under me name of TracysPal. Will b putting a lot of gold into real money side so can play with Big Boys -- where u get those krazy glasses?

#15 thebottomline

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 09:21 AM

Double Yoo Tee Eff.
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#16 CobaltBlue

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 10:03 PM

View Postthebottomline, on Friday, October 12th, 2007, 12:21 PM, said:

Double Yoo Tee Eff.
...yeah...I dunno...

#17 Incubus77546

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Posted 16 October 2007 - 05:18 PM

For those of you who have not seen the hand, you can see it here.




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