Playing Aces

[wsox8 10]

Played fine?PokerStars Game #6422836883: HORSE (Hold'em Limit, $1/$2) - 2006/09/26 - 00:53:17 (ET)Table 'Tokai' 8-max Seat #5 is the buttonSeat 1: gahoskins714 ($47.30 in chips) Seat 2: meanmoe26 ($52 in chips) Seat 3: cyber zen ($45.25 in chips) Seat 4: Faduniak ($40.55 in chips) Seat 5: hockeyp20 ($40.10 in chips) Seat 6: AlphaDelt ($31.80 in chips) Seat 7: Wsox08 ($36.80 in chips) Seat 8: Stooks_12 ($74.65 in chips) AlphaDelt: posts small blind $0.50Wsox08: posts big blind $1*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to Wsox08 [Ad Ac]Stooks_12: folds gahoskins714: folds meanmoe26: folds cyber zen: raises $1 to $2Faduniak: folds hockeyp20: folds AlphaDelt: calls $1.50Wsox08: raises $1 to $3cyber zen: raises $1 to $4Betting is cappedAlphaDelt: calls $2Wsox08: calls $1*** FLOP *** [8h 5h Kh]AlphaDelt: checks Wsox08: bets $1cyber zen: raises $1 to $2AlphaDelt: calls $2Wsox08: calls $1*** TURN *** [8h 5h Kh] [2c]AlphaDelt: bets $2Wsox08: calls $2cyber zen: raises $2 to $4AlphaDelt: calls $2Wsox08: calls $2*** RIVER *** [8h 5h Kh 2c] [9s]AlphaDelt: checks Wsox08: checks cyber zen: checks *** SHOW DOWN ***AlphaDelt: shows [Th Ks] (a pair of Kings)Wsox08: shows [Ad Ac] (a pair of Aces)cyber zen: mucks hand AlphaDelt said, "nh"Wsox08 collected $29 from pot*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $30 | Rake $1 Board [8h 5h Kh 2c 9s]Seat 1: gahoskins714 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 2: meanmoe26 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 3: cyber zen mucked [Qd Ah]Seat 4: Faduniak folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 5: hockeyp20 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 6: AlphaDelt (small blind) showed [Th Ks] and lost with a pair of KingsSeat 7: Wsox08 (big blind) showed [Ad Ac] and won ($29) with a pair of AcesSeat 8: Stooks_12 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[Zach6668 513]

Played fine?Poker StarsLimit Holdem Ring gameLimit: $1/$28 playersConverterPre-flop: (8 players) Hero is BB with A A 3 folds, MP2 raises, 2 folds, SB calls, Hero 3-bets, MP2 caps, SB calls, Hero calls.Flop: 8 5 K (12SB, 3 players)SB checks, Hero bets, MP2 raises, SB calls, Hero calls.Turn: 2 (9BB, 3 players)SB bets, Hero calls, MP2 raises, SB calls, Hero calls.River: 9 (15BB, 3 players)SB checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks.Results:Final pot: 15BB

FYP.

[wsox8 10]

FYP.

oops sorry zach , thank you for fixing my mistake..

[Zach6668 513]

oops sorry zach , thank you for fixing my mistake..

:POh, and MP2 has AhKx.I prolly 3-bet the flop.

[CoranMoran 0]

I play this hand much more aggressively.We can't just sit around and wait for that 4th heart to come!

Flop: 8 5 K (12SB, 3 players)SB checks, Hero bets, MP2 raises, SB calls, Hero calls.

I adamantly 3bet this flop.What are we afraid of??There is NO reason to think anyone has the FLush right now.MP can be raising this with a ton of hands that we beat.Pump it up for value and protection!

Turn: 2 (9BB, 3 players)SB bets, Hero calls, MP2 raises, SB calls, Hero calls.

I raise it again!Anyone chasing their 1-heart draw must pay!

River: 9 (15BB, 3 players)SB checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks.

And assuming I haven't been raised back on every street, I'm betting here too.I think you played this way too passively.And in the long run, I believe this will cost you a lot of value.--cm

[Actuary 3]

please 3 bet the flopyou have SB trapped in there.MP has KK 3 ways. AK 6 ways.It's also going to tell you more about the turn action if you're wllling to 3-bet this flop and SB still leads the turn, or MP raises a turn bet.

[JMoney2681 0]

Played fine?

At first I thought you were just calling on the flop to see a safe card on the turn and raise the turn, but you didn't. Raise the flop, or raise the turn because one of them has to be raised. I like raising the flop and turn if it blanks like that.

[Shimmering Wang 1]

Tough hand.I'd probably bet the flop, and go ahead and 3-bet it as well, especially with the SB there (as Actuary's already mentioned) trapped.Turn's super weird, with the SB betting out. I'm confused. At this point, I'd probably play it like you did. If I had a decent read on either of the two players, it's POSSIBLE to call the SB bet, and 3-bet when the MP player raises, getting a little extra money in with a hand that figures to be good against two hands drawing against my overpair.Only thing that bothers me is the flop play.Wang

[mrdannyg 274]

i definitely 3-bet this flop given our position. on a flop like that i'll often not 3-bet in hopes of being able to put in a turn bet or raise that will shut people out of the pot. given the position and the betting, we're unlikely to be able to do so, so i go ahead and 3-bet while i'm probably ahead.i don't raise the turn because i'm a weak ****, but i think abba or akishore might recommend raising, and i'll suggest that doing so would increase our equity enough to make up for when we're behind and/or get 3-bet.

[Shimmering Wang 1]

i think abba or akishore might recommend raising, and i'll suggest that doing so would increase our equity enough to make up for when we're behind and/or get 3-bet.

Why?I'm lurking.Wang

[Abbaddabba 0]

Turn's super weird, with the SB betting out. I'm confused. At this point, I'd probably play it like you did. If I had a decent read on either of the two players, it's POSSIBLE to call the SB bet, and 3-bet when the MP player raises, getting a little extra money in with a hand that figures to be good against two hands drawing against my overpair.

Just raise the donk if you want to put more than 1 bet in. Facing the other guy with two bets to potentially get a mid heart or pair+live kicker to fold..... is better than "trapping" him for 3 when he decides his hand is good enough to raise again, and giving him the option to just call with the hands that you actually want to get 3bets in with.But im not sure that raising is a good idea on the turn at all with all that happened up to that point considered.People dont tend to call two cold on one street and donk on the next street with just top pair, especially after it was 3bet and capped preflop. SB looks a lot stronger than what he actually had. It's usually their idea of a slow play. They dont want to 3bet the flop because it could scare people, and they dont want to check raise the turn because there's too good a chance that the other guy is going ot check behind with a draw.

[mrdannyg 274]

Why?I'm lurking.Wang

we may well get the person behind us to fold a mid-heart, or get a couple people behind us to fold decent 5-outers, which would be nice given the big pot.i agree with abba that this is often a poor slowplay, but it is conceivably something like a naked king, or a KTh, where we get value by knocking people out.

[Abbaddabba 0]

If the guy donking has K10 with the 10 of hearts, we gain little from getthing the other guy to fold.... unless he has us beat, in which case he never folds.

[bdc30 0]

With aces, you pretty much just put your mouse over the "raise"button and click away to oblivion until the 4th heart comes, or youface a bunch of resistance.

[Acid_Knight 2]

I forget how to play 1/2 limit, but many players generally have no idea what they're doing.With that being said, even maniacs and morons are allowed to outflop your aces.I like how the hand was played. There were 2 opponents in the pot going all the way on a board with 3 hearts. One of them could've had the flush or 2 pair or a set.Getting full value for your hand and minimizing losses are 2 concepts which go hand in hand. You got good value for the hand and at the same time kept yourself mostly out of trouble in case you were beaten.

[JMoney2681 0]

You got good value for the hand and at the same time kept yourself mostly out of trouble in case you were beaten.

You can't really do both. He chose to save him bets in case he was beat, in this spot he wasn't so he lost value bets...???

[Acid_Knight 2]

You can't really do both. He chose to save him bets in case he was beat, in this spot he wasn't so he lost value bets...???

I didn't say that he got FULL value for his hand. There is a middle where he accomplishes some of both. In the end, he collected quite a few bets with a fairly weak hand, given the board cards. I actually think that he got close to full value on the hand, but then again, I don't play the limits that small anymore.

[Shimmering Wang 1]

You can't really do both. He chose to save him bets in case he was beat, in this spot he wasn't so he lost value bets...???

You've got the wrong mindset here. Think about the hand assuming you don't know his opponents' holdings. The question you have to ask is, "Did he get full value against his opponents likely holdings?" You can't analyze the hand ex post facto like that.Wang

[Acid_Knight 2]

You've got the wrong mindset here. Think about the hand assuming you don't know his opponents' holdings. The question you have to ask is, "Did he get full value against his opponents likely holdings?" You can't analyze the hand ex post facto like that.Wang

That's a good point. The only thing is, it's 1/2 limit and he probably did miss value on the hand since the players were obviously going all the way.If this was 20/40 or a game where people are capable of folding, you'd be 100% right. Here, I think some of the thought evaporates becuase the players are unlikely to fold any probable winners.

[Shimmering Wang 1]

That's a good point. The only thing is, it's 1/2 limit and he probably did miss value on the hand since the players were obviously going all the way.If this was 20/40 or a game where people are capable of folding, you'd be 100% right. Here, I think some of the thought evaporates becuase the players are unlikely to fold any probable winners.

You're also thinking about the hand terribly

[Actuary 3]

That's a good point. The only thing is, it's 1/2 limit and he probably did miss value on the hand since the players were obviously going all the way.If this was 20/40 or a game where people are capable of folding, you'd be 100% right. Here, I think some of the thought evaporates becuase the players are unlikely to fold any probable winners.

since these horrible 1/2 players..my oh my I just laugh when I think about people playing for $1/2 limits, but all that aside.. will go further with worse hands, that's more reason to extract value at least until we have sufficient reason to think we are beat often enough such that the extra value or protecton is offset by the expected bets lossed. that might be what you were implying, I'm not sure$1/2 lol...

[Shimmering Wang 1]

then again, I don't play the limits that small anymore.

This is so annoying. Is there a reason you said this, apart from the fact that you're incredibly insecure, and want to make sure everybody knows you play 30/60 or something? There's no reason to say something if you're going to follow it up with, "But I play too high for my opinion to matter." Unless all you care about is letting everyone know how much money you consistently play for.Wang

[Actuary 3]

This is so annoying.Unless all you care about is letting everyone know how much money you consistently play for.Wang

hi.where have you been?And furthermore, you should have more respect for the ballers that stoop down to help us little folks. No man is taller than when he kneels to help a child.I recall a man named Iceman who helped me out early on, encouraging me. Then again he wasn't a dick.

[Shimmering Wang 1]

hi.where have you been?And furthermore, you should have more respect for the ballers that stoop down to help us little folks. No man is taller than when he kneels to help a child.I recall a man named Iceman who helped me out early on, encouraging me. Then again he wasn't a dick.

Yeah, I was probably a little over the line there, no? I'm grumpy. That's just one of my biggest pet peeves. "I'm going to give you advice, then add the caveat that I may simply be too good to give you good advice." Then don't give the advice in the first place.Besides, Actuary, I have a feeling you're doing alright in the poker world... what're you playing now?I've been fine. Playing a lot of poker, having a nervous breakdown after the Bill Frist thing. I've been doing most of my hand analysis with a few buddies that I'm trying to teach the finer points of LHE. They're not around right now, and I needed to think about poker a bit, so I stopped in here and checked out what was going on. Seems like this place is kinda dead, nowadays.Wang

[Actuary 3]

Yeah, I was probably a little over the line there, no? I'm grumpy. Wang

Wang, I love you.I'm implying Acid was being a dick.I've actually been playing very little Poker and almost no Limit.Mostly Tournies.I was letting a lot of things in my life slip and using poker to cover up the anxiety/pain/boredom/apathy. Can you be all those at once?I need to put my life in proper order and then perhaps, hit Limit hard and take that next step. you're right about it being dead hereEveryone just posts goals and plays NL now, apparentlyOr posts over in 2+2.