2016 Elections

[Dubey 1,035]

https://storify.com/case_face/a-trump-rally-in-greensboro-anger-in-here-is-palpa

 

 

[Scrim 115]

The reason our culture has so many mass shootings is because of all the desperate nihilism created by degenerate leftism and their constant attack on values, combined with unlimited access to firearms. There are a shit-ton of awfully scary guns in Switzerland or Vermont or the Czech Republic but well adjusted, purpose-driven white people in peaceful little winter'y green hamlets don't feel the need to lash out at a shitty world.

 

The left can never gain an ounce of credibility on the gun issue since they instantly demean any position they take by either stumbling over terminology (which allows gun people to 'correct' them and in turn immediately occupy the intellectual high ground, making them look like whinging, emotional, clueless idiots) or they do that doubletalk thing where they say that anyone who thinks the government is out to take your guns is a paranoid crank but really, we need to do something about people owning (insert guns here).

 

This event is particularly interesting because it's causing huge pangs of cognitive dissonance among leftist gays who view non-whites as a natural ally. Everyone warned them that Muslims were something else entirely but so far, they've been mostly disinterested and idealistic. Now that we've seen Islamic values lash out at Western values in a way they can can't help but examine and relate to their own lives, that particular brand of idealism is dying a quick death.

 

Bill Maher was prescient on this... Note how cringe'ishly Ben Affleck humiliates himself.

 

[Dubey 1,035]

Wow Scram. I don't even know what to say about that post.

 

#1 reason mass shootings happen?

 

 

I'll go with: any lunatic can walk into a store and buy a semi automatic assault rifle

 

I'll let you keep your "degenerate leftists" and Their "desperate nihilism."

 

 

I think you are probably a really smart guy, and I usually enjoy your rants, but you might have to lay out in layman's terms to a simpleton like me precisely how this degenerate leftism and desperate nihilism is forcing these poor unsuspecting folks to carry out mass murders, because I'm not seeing it, but I am just a Canadian after all. This is more baffling than the time you denounced cutlery trays and the people who use them.

[Scrim 115]

Peruse at your leisure.

 

http://www.gunpolicy.org/

 

While the US is definitely outlying in many regards, there are a whole lotta countries where people own a whole lotta guns and they aren't slaughtering each other. If guns caused death and chaos, Switzerland would look like Chicago. Further, per capita gun ownership used to be a good bit denser in the United States yet mass shootings were very, very rare until about the late 80's (with a few obvious exceptions, Charles Whitman, etc).

 

What changed was the slow erosion of our cultural values and in turn, the inevitable nihilism created by the more degenerate iterations of leftism that won the culture wars. You seriously think there is no consequence when a culture arrives at a point that this is a lauded 'hero'?

 

 

... and the result of that devolution into the mind**** abyss doesn't manifest itself on the lunatic fringe who are likely to snap and do something henious?

 

Of course our having 'access to guns' exacerbates the problem- we're probably the last society on earth that should have any guns- but that thesis doesn't cross apply to other countries that have access to guns, or other eras when we have more access to guns than we do now. For **** sake, prior to the late 60's you could order them through the mail...

 

 

 

.... but then again, we were acculturated a good bit different. Back then, this was a "hero".

 

 

There was really nothing to lash out at.

 

We also had insane asylums where we rigorously sequestered the mentally ill away from everyone else, but guess who campaigned against shuttering those on 'humanitarian' grounds?

[Dubey 1,035]

So basically you are saying that our society has become so..... Accepting.... of different cultures and lifestyles that's it's literally driving people to murder. What a god damn depressing world view.

 

I find it interesting that you drop this at the feet of the "leftists" as though this is a perfectly natural progression. Like Once our society reaches a point where we accept that a former Olympic hero wants to spend the rest of his life as a female, we must naturally accept that whack jobs are going to go on murderous rampages to lash out at the insanity of it all.

 

I'm a naturally apathetic person in a lot of ways, but I honestly can't comprehend what kind of person would even waste two seconds of their day worrying about whether Bruce Jenner is wearing pants or a dress.

 

 

 

 

 

[Scrim 115]

Nobody cares about Transvestite Bruce Jenner, but it's a pretty perfect example of a culture that has denigrated to the point of absolute lunacy/absurdity which is where nihilism comes from. The more ridiculous and unnatural bullshit you force down peoples throats, the more likely you are to encounter someone on the furthest fringes who lashes out against it and does something heinous.

 

So this...

 

 

 

creates this...

 

 

 

 

 

which creates this...

 

 

 

(from the article: "Police in Norway Proclaim 'Oslo is Lost' : http://www.americant...lo_is_lost.html)

 

 

 

which, sadly, creates this...

 

 

 

 

 

I mean, seriously, what did these people think the consequences of their "ideals" would be?

 

And what does all this wind up doing to the psyche of already fragile people who are in a denigrating world and declining civilization surrounded by naive retards who are cheering it on? Does it really come as a surprise when one of them snaps and does something awful?

 

It's not a coincidence. Something that went quite underreported: these two gems of humanity...

 

 

 

... were strident racists too.

http://crimeandcolum...racist-and-nazi

 

Colorado Theater Shooter?

 

http://hiphopwired.c...-rap-lil-wayne/

 

To be clear, what we saw in Orlando was evidence of the fundamental incompatibility between Islam and the West. After a while, the "... but not all of them" argument loses any traction when the body count gets high enough. The gay community is abandoning that idealism in droves.

 

As far as other mass shooting events though, yeah. It's deeply ****ed up people who snap because our culture is trash, has no upright values and/or it demands they adhere to a bizarre and untenable social code that is kinda ridiculous once you get past it's 'good intentions'. The fact they have 'access to guns' is a problem too, but if access to guns were the problem itself, then why were such shootings impossibly rare when gun controls were at their lowest?

 

Because we didn't always lie to ourselves on such a far-reaching scale.

 

As an aside, a satire of the Orlando Club shooting that jumps to mind would be from the perspective of a news helicopter flying overhead while the shooting and all the gays fleeing the gunman in a flawlessly choreographed dance routine... but see? There's ugly old nihilism again. I shouldn't be thinking about gays doing perfectly synchronized running pas-de-cheval's as they twirling-leapfrong each other behind the nearest Honda Civic while a homicidal maniac wildly sprays gunfire. I should be thinking about Rosa Parks and the sacrifices made by Martin Luther King so we could all live in more just, verdant and peaceful world.

[Dubey 1,035]

I think you are projecting your own personal views on society into the minds of a sick and twisted minority, so these ideas seem perfectly natural to you, but completely alien to me.

 

Your thesis would be more compelling as reasoning behind the rise of Trump and his supporters.

 

There are far more progressive countries out there than the USA, and following your logic, shooting sprees should be an epidemic in those countries. Unless deranged Americans are just more inherently likely to grab a gun and shoot up a night club than a similarly deranged European or Canadian.

 

 

 

Not really sure what to make of your last paragraph. You are skirting around the edges of your ideal system, why not just lay it out for us? How far back do you think we should go on human rights? 50s, 60s, 70s, slavery? I gotta say, It's been awhile since I've seen the legacy of Rosa parks and MLK used Sardonically to make a counter point.

[Scrim 115]

I comprehend their thought process because I see exactly what they see. I'm just not so emotionally tortured by it that I lash out at things because overall, I enjoy black women and realize that we're not much more than temporary, weird talking monkeys that are an asteroid collision away from being flushed so the world can be taken over by whatever turtle-cockroach hybrid is able to evolve from the impact winter and survive off the fungal spores that are the only surviving plants. The reason those tards violently lash out is because they think that life has 'meaning' and there's anything worth fighting for.

 

There really isn't.

 

It's exactly the same reason Trump is getting such support. Of course they're not all lunatics who are going to go kill people. Most are just NORPs who just vote for the guy who stands against 'political correctness' (a code for blacks) and the childish and completely unsustainable idealism of the past half-century or so.

 

There are far more "progressive" countries, but not too many that are particularly diverse in the manner that we are which is the entire point being discussed here. Brazil would be an approximate example and their gun murder rate is actually worse than ours.

[SuitedAces21 2,722]

dubey is really struggling here.

[Dubey 1,035]

Meh, I know I'm never going to "win" an argument against scram, or any of the Trump nut huggers here. But I'm also not the only one reading the last few pages who doesn't buy this tired schtick that the Liberals and political correctness are ruining society. Nobody else wants to say anything though, and I wouldn't want a random straggler who wandered in here to think we were all a bunch of hateful republicans with a "leftist" complex

[SuitedAces21 2,722]

dubey i found some of your friends.

 

[Dubey 1,035]

dubey i found some of your friends.

 

 

Don't worry, I'm sure Scram already likes you, you can stop subtly sucking up to him.

[SuitedAces21 2,722]

i'm making fun of you, hippie. my sucking off scram is TOTALLY SEPARATE.

[Scrim 115]

But I'm also not the only one reading the last few pages who doesn't buy this tired schtick that the Liberals and political correctness are ruining society.

 

It's not 'tired schtick'. You can try to wave it away with whatever dismissive rhetoric you want but that sentiment, right there, is precisely how the Trump campaign began.

 

And who's mocking who now?

[Dubey 1,035]

I'm not mocking you. I suspect you and I would not see eye to eye on many issues, and that's fine. I may be naive where you are jaded, but I refuse to buy into the idea that people being generally decent to each other is what is ruining society, and 37% of America agreeing with you doesn't really make a difference to me.

[Balloon guy 158]

The numbers of private gun ownership for personal defense would absolutely skyrocket if there were an average of 1 mass shooting per day in the USA.

 

If private gun owners were violent, you would know it too.

 

We own over 300million guns, with over a trillion rounds of ammo, if anyone wants to believe that we are unstable and trigger happy, you just have to use a tiny portion of the brain to realize that we aren't.

 

Luckily the left has huge amounts of unused brains, but for some reason they turn them off when it comes to guns.

 

A Muslim shouting ally akbar ( dont care what it is ) shoots and kills 100 people and the answer is to blame guns, while screaming it's not Islam. Deaf ears are growing

[Scrim 115]

I'm not mocking you. I suspect you and I would not see eye to eye on many issues, and that's fine. I may be naive where you are jaded, but I refuse to buy into the idea that people being generally decent to each other is what is ruining society, and 37% of America agreeing with you doesn't really make a difference to me.

 

I know you aren't mocking me. You are dismissively mocking Trump people, which is a formula that doesn't seem to be working out so well for people who don't like Trump.

 

'People being generally decent to each other' is a wonderful formula. One might even say it's a fine ideal to aspire towards.

Problem is, it just doesn't work in a society of different cultures when civilization breaks down the moment we're expected to use the same public institutions.

 

You Canadians will be eating your own cooking soon enough. While your demographic 'enrichment' hasn't quite been on the level of a Sweden, you're still importing a whole lot of people from places that can't seem to build an advanced civilization of their own.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWzjn0N9g4g

[Balloon guy 158]

The left has this insane belief that the government can handle immense power.

 

The constitution was written specifically to restrict the power of government because government will always abuse power.

 

Obama had the IRS target conservative groups. "So what" says the left, because they don't like conservative groups. In the very near future the right will be in control of the IRS. What will you say when they target your guys?

 

 

Obama decided he has the right as President to sentence an American citizen on foreign soil to death, no oversight. Tomorrow what if the President decides to target a US citizen on American soil without any oversight?

 

When the government becomes powerful enough, they will expand their powers into areas we can't imagine now. And then it's too late to say oops.

 

 

In a free society, people have the ability to do things that cause pain to others. Demanding that nobody hurt anyone is not only childish, it's impossible. 50,000 people a year die on our highways, but we demanded speed limit restrictions be lifted in the 80s, because we are willing to trade lives for driving 70 on the freeway. Well, we didn't frame it that way, but that's the result.

 

40,000 people a year die by guns, mostly suicide (21,000) and thugs (10,000), but let's use those deaths to exaggerate the impact. 40,000...you're 6 times more likely to die by a medical error (240,000) than by a gun in the US.

 

When is the last time you saw either side demand action on medical errors?

[Balloon guy 158]

I know you aren't mocking me. You are dismissively mocking Trump people, which is a formula that doesn't seem to be working out so well for people who don't like Trump.

 

'People being generally decent to each other' is a wonderful formula. One might even say it's a fine ideal to aspire towards.

Problem is, it just doesn't work in a society of different cultures when civilization breaks down the moment we're expected to use the same public institutions.

 

You Canadians will be eating your own cooking soon enough. While your demographic 'enrichment' hasn't quite been on the level of a Sweden, you're still importing a whole lot of people from places that can't seem to build an advanced civilization of their own.

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=JWzjn0N9g4g

 

I use to dismiss a lot of what you said because racist!

 

But I've looked at the data, and you were right more often than wrong. Maybe couched in a manner that pushed buttons, but IQ tests, cognitive thinking skills, etc. When you look at the data without bias, it is a clear picture. Many cultures are not compatible with Western culture. Maybe in very small numbers where assimilation is forced, but in large groups, no.

 

In fact in large enough numbers the result is more akin to invasion than immigration.

 

Magic dirt doesn't work

[Dubey 1,035]

 

40,000 people a year die by guns, mostly suicide (21,000) and thugs (10,000), but let's use those deaths to exaggerate the impact. 40,000...you're 6 times more likely to die by a medical error (240,000) than by a gun in the US.

 

 

 

 

See, I was being facetious when I suggested that thugs killing each other didn't count. Also, look up suicide rates for households with a gun compared to households without a gun, but go ahead and dismiss those 21,000 people too.

 

 

while we are looking at stats, for every instance of a gun being used in self defense, there are 4 instances of accidental shooting by misuse. Those don't make your cutoff though unless somebody dies.

[Dubey 1,035]

 

 

You are dismissively mocking Trump people, which is a formula that doesn't seem to be working out so well for people who don't like Trump.

 

 

Just particularly the trump people in this thread (Balloon Guy and the troll who pops up occasionally), who are so deep into their jug of koolaid that they actually spit out Trump campaign slogans as part of their regular rhetoric now.

 

 

fwiw, I think the formula you referenced is working fine. Trump has "successfully" put himself into a prime position to get absolutely trounced by the most unfavourable democratic nominee in decades. Congrats to Trump and his people?

[Dubey 1,035]

 

A Muslim shouting ally akbar ( dont care what it is ) shoots and kills 100 people and the answer is to blame guns, while screaming it's not Islam. Deaf ears are growing

 

 

Ally Akbar? Congrats you've become a caricature. As the official representation of the opposition, I should point out that I never said "it's not Islam". Of course it is Islam. Religion is fked. Anyone who has violent tendencies, is mentally unstable, and has extremist religious beliefs to back them is dangerous to society, I'm just not so foolish to ascribe those ideals to the other 1.7 Billion of them in the world. You know who else hate gays and are occasionally violent? Evangelical Christians. I say, out with every single Christian person too. All the good ones too, we can't be too safe.

[Scrim 115]

Ally Akbar? Congrats you've become a caricature. As the official representation of the opposition, I should point out that I never said "it's not Islam". Of course it is Islam. Religion is fked. Anyone who has violent tendencies, is mentally unstable, and has extremist religious beliefs to back them is dangerous to society, I'm just not so foolish to ascribe those ideals to the other 1.7 Billion of them in the world. You know who else hate gays and are occasionally violent? Evangelical Christians. I say, out with every single Christian person too. All the good ones too, we can't be too safe.

 

But note how your position really makes no compelling case for what amounts to the primary issue- allowing Islamic immigration- on merit, in face of the enormous hazard it presents.

 

You make the "... but they all aren't that way" argument and say "but wuddabout Christians" which, again, is not a merit based position. It's an ad-hoc relativism argument which isn't really on point, particularly considering that the inevitability of native-born extremism doesn't make a compelling case for importing more from Arabia.

 

Them funniest thing about the left on issues that revolve around cultural compatibility is that they are truly, genuinely, sincerely surprised that when you move 80,000 Arabs into a neighborhood somewhere in Sweden, they don't all become like Swedes and the neighborhood goes to shit. If there's any Kool Aid going around, it's the failed post-modern experiment that is 'equality', given it's impossible to actually believe in that ideal in light of every single piece of evidence we can reference that demonstrates it's absolutely not true.

[Dubey 1,035]

 

But note how your position really makes no compelling case for what amounts to the primary issue- allowing Islamic immigration- on merit, in face of the enormous hazard it presents.

 

 

You are correct, I don't make a compelling case because I don't have a compelling case. That doesn't mean a compelling case does not exist. Does America do a good job of integrating all immigrants into their society? almost certainly not. So does that mean we just say "Fck 'em, let's keep them out"? Or do we look at the reasons why it is failing and try to correct them? I'm in the latter camp, you are in the former. I Does that make me a delusional left wing idealist? In your eyes, probably always. I see things a little differently.

 

Let's think about this actually logistically. We talk about banning all Muslims from entering the country. What we really mean is banning all people of middle eastern descent, because how are we really going to prove what religion they support? If this happens, it immediately becomes a toxic environment for any person that looks like a Muslim still living in America. 20% of the country now feels justified in their unease/hatred towards Muslims. are the existing Muslims allowed to stay? or do they get kicked out? What if they don't want to or don't have the means to leave? what happens then? This is a very slippery slope.

[Dubey 1,035]

 

You make the "... but they all aren't that way" argument and say "but wuddabout Christians" which, again, is not a merit based position. It's an ad-hoc relativism argument which isn't really on point, particularly considering that the inevitability of native-born extremism doesn't make a compelling case for importing more from Arabia.

 

 

I wasn't making an argument at all. I was simply using sarcasm to point out how ridiculous it is to attribute the value of an entire race of people based on the most extreme actions of a select few. Is a Muslim more likely to carry out violence in the name of Allah than a Christian is in the name of God? I doubt it.

 

Any time you let anyone enter your country there is a chance that he is a violent extremist. Immigration policies should do their best to weed out these people and not let them in the country at all, and I'm all for strict immigration policies and national security, but simply using "muslim" as a qualifier on who to let in and who to block is not the right answer