vbnautilus, on Monday, May 23rd, 2011, 9:37 PM, said:
They are providing fertile soil for the seeds of the next holy war.
If you go to church, you are promoting jihad? You have to know how silly that is. When pressed, most religious people know the difference between faith and knowledge. They just choose to shut it off for the social and emotional benefits. Blaming those people for jihad is like blaming heavy metal for school shootings -- the cause and effect are backward.
You're suggesting that we cultivate a society in which truth doesn't matter as long as it makes people temporarily happy. The consequences of that are so far-reaching its hard to even grasp. Basically we have a culture that does not know how to use reason. Why would they? Given the value placed on believing superstitions despite overwhelming evidence, how could we ever create a reasonable society?
I still suggest teaching reason and logic in school, and explaining why it is important. That doesn't mean people should not be allowed to carve out a niche in their life for the irrational. We all do it in some way or another, it's just that religion pushed people's buttons.
I also don't believe the canard that religion makes people happy. At least, there are plenty of less harmful alternatives available which could lead us all to a place of greater collective well-being. Do you really think that we are optimizing our well-being by cultivating religion, or are you just resigned to the idea that it will never change?
I think that many people are better off with religion, if only for the social aspect of it. In fact, I would say that is the typical case.We need to be careful to not judge the 99% by the 1%.
Spademan, on Monday, May 23rd, 2011, 9:41 PM, said:
I'm on my phone. When I get to a keyboard I'm going to hammer the shit out of you hblask.Hammer the dog shit out of you.
Yeah, see, that doesn't phase me. I know all the arguments, and I just don't think Joe Suburbanite praying at school is a big deal. Should the school obey the law? Of course. Would I personally incur the wrath of a entire town to ensure they do? No. That's my only point, really. Other than that most of my interest here is theoretical.
vbnautilus, on Monday, May 23rd, 2011, 10:05 PM, said:
Maybe the real solution to this problem is to only tax people who use the schools. Then if people want to use that same money for private religious education or home-schooling they can do that. The public school needs to take the following position: "as a public institution we remain neutral with respect to religion". Students are free to express their religious beliefs. The school is not free to endorse those religious beliefs by incorporating them into school functions.
Vouchers solves this, too, to a large degree, because then the percentage of people paying for public vs religious schools basically matches the number who would in the absence of public schools, but with the benefits of public ed. Some people are bothered that even a penny of their money goes to religious schools, but that's no different than making religious people pay for schools that forbid religion. Vouchers or backpack funding seems to balance the line, IMO.