short sessions vs. long sessions

[BDPoolie 0]

Sorry if this has been talked about, but I did a search and couldn't find anything on it.I was curious how people feel about short sessions vs. long sessions of play.When I sit down at night, I usually play between 2 to 4 hours. Those are the times when my results are the best. I can slowly build my stack, while folding in the right places to minimize my losses .Sometimes in the mornings, when I get up a little early, i play a little bit before going to work. In these sessions I usually only get between 30 minutes to 1 hour. I get destroyed in these sessions.I think that when I play these short sessions, that I don't play the same game as when I am there for awhile. I tend to play more aggressive, and push more edges. I'm not saying I play "stupid" aggressive. Just that when I am playing a long session, I'll raise PF with A-K, A-Q, etc. But shorthanded I'll raise with K-J, A-10, A-9. It may also be a function of being different types of players at this time of the day, as opposed to at night.For instance, I played .25/PL this morning and raised to $1.25with A-K. Two callers. The flop comes A-7-4. I bet the pot ($3.75). 1 fold. 1 caller, Turn comes Q. I bet the pot ($11.25). 1 caller. River comes a 10. Now there is a possible straight and they guy has called me all the way down. I check. He bets my last $4. I have to call, getting 8.5 to 1 on my money. He has 10-4. He called a raise with 10-4. Then called me all the way down with bottom pair, to hit 2 pair on the river. Sorry, but this wasn't intended to be a "bad beat story". The original subjuct was "session lengths", I just wanted to know if I played this wrong? I felt I did everything I could do to get him out of the pot, but he wasn't going anywhere.ANYWAY, sorry for the derailment, but can some other people comment on session lengths.

[Big Trips 0]

Good thread. I'll bite before the flamers and one-liners litter it up.I was going through my stats for a period of 2,5 months a while ago and discovered that playing long sessions without a break was a major leak in my game. I added up the results for all sessions under 90 minutes and all those longer. The total for the 90+ minute sessions was close to zero and for the shorter sessions (usually 45-60 minutes before going to work in the mornings), the total was about +$7000. I was pretty shocked. I've started taking breaks of 5-10 minutes after 60-90 minutes to relax a bit and re-focus.I also know for sure that sitting down with just 20-30 minutes is a loser. I'll be too impatient to play my A-game.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

I think, for myself at least, online verses live is a big, big difference in my long vs short preference.Online, when I'm multi tabling and using my concentration to the max, my play really, really really suffers when I play for really long sessions. My b iggest leak BY FAR, online is playing tired. I get into the fugue, where I care les and less about making good descisions, and just spluge off money. Online, 3-4 hours is pretty much all I can take befoer my play starts to really tank. On the other hand, in live games I can play 8, 10, 12 hours, no sweat. Granted, my play does start to slip towards the end of the night, but so is everyone elses. I'm only playing in games like that, to all hours of the night, because people are stuck, adn trying to catch up and tired and drunk/ starting to get hung over, and don't care any more. THe last two hours a card room is open are the best two. But also, I play almost exclusivly limit live, so the little slips in my play won't cost me as much as they do in No Limit. Also, about once an hour, I get up and walk around, play pin ball, or walk around the casino, get an ice cream, an expresso, something. It annoys people at the table that I sit out able a round every hour/hour and a half., but i don't really care. IT helps me stay sharp.The biggest consideration in playing a long session is because the game is good, and you're playing with people who are also playing long sessions, and you can exploit them. Except at the very highest levels of online poker, I don't think this is a consideration, as the line up you're playing changes so much hour to hour.All in all, palying lots of little sessions is superior to long ones, online I think.

[erac22 0]

first of all, with regard to how you played that particular hand, think about it this way. 20 dollars went into the pot with you ahead, 4 dollars went in with the other guy ahead. You pushed your edge as strong as you possibly could have (being a pot limit game) and you got a guy to call when he was behind. You want him to call there, and got unlucky on the river. if you keep making plays like this you will be profitable, don't sweat that hand. i find that it isn't session length (or lack thereof) that is the problem, it's whether you feel rushed or not. When you sit down with an unlimited amount of time that you can play for, you can be patient, wait for spots, not get ancy... When you limit yourself to only being able to play for a half hour, you feel rushed to make something happen, and push action/make calls when you should be more patient. It's not necessarily that the length of time for which you play is important in your win rate, but whether or not you feel rushed. Just my opinion from my own experience. I hope this helps.Cheers,.Erac

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

about that hand specifically, you should have bet those four dollars on the river. Checking there is really bad, and here's why. Since you're willing to call any bet on the river, you are pretty much costing your self 4 dollars when you ahve the best hand, and he would have called, but losing that 4 dollars when you have the worst hand. It's very unlikely that someone's going to bluff in that situation, as it's your last 4 dollars, and it's a really bad place to bet. Conversely worse hands than yours are very unlikely to bet, since the board is so scary, but better hands than yours WILL bet, and cost you that money. Many worse hands than yours will call on the river, since it's only 4 more dollars, and they are getting great odds. IN short, when the board gets scary, and you're going to call an all in bet on the river, it's bettter to just go all in yourself, so you can make money the times you have the best hand. DOes this make sense?

[erac22 0]

about that hand specifically, you should have bet those four dollars on the river.  Checking there is really bad, and here's why.  Since you're willing to call any bet on the river, you are pretty much costing your self 4 dollars when you ahve the best hand, and he would have called, but losing that 4 dollars when you have the worst hand.  It's very unlikely that someone's going to bluff in that situation, as it's your last 4 dollars, and it's a really bad place to bet.  Conversely worse hands than yours are very unlikely to bet, since the board is so scary, but better hands than yours WILL bet, and cost you that money.  Many worse hands than yours will call on the river, since it's only 4 more dollars, and they are getting great odds.  IN short, when the board gets scary, and you're going to call an all in bet on the river, it's bettter to just go all in yourself, so you can make money the times you have the best hand.  DOes this make sense?

I agree with your analysis, BigDMcGee, that you lose value by not betting here since a donkey with middle pair or Ace rag will call you down since the bet is so small compared to the pot size. i guess the converse is if the guy has a hand like 2 pair or a set and has been slowplaying it, he might check the river being scared of the one card straight, saving the hero 4 dollars. However, slowplaying a set or 2 pair on the turn here with only 4 dollars left in the hero's stack would make no sense, but a lot of the play at these limits online make no sense. All in all, i think more value is gained by betting this river than is saved by checking it, but just thought i'd play devil's advocate.

[KoRnholio 2]

I find if I sit down knowing I can only play for a short time (1 hour or less) that I get too aggressive and try to win too fast. Whereas in longer sessions I let the cards do the winning instead of turning into a quasi-maniac trying to book a good session.

[bcook823 0]

I don't think its wise to "play before work." Now that being said, I don't think its wise to play extremely short sessions. Sometimes you are up against time, and may make a gamble that you normally wouldn't make. If it were a limit game, then because you are short of time, you are not going to have a read on your opponents. If your online game is compromised of many of the same players this may not be relevant, at lower limits that usally is not the case. If you only have say 1.5 hours to play, i would be more inclined to play a SNG. Maybe even multi-table a few sng's. Then you could play, but not be too worried about running out of time. I can remember a time, when I would go to work in the afternoon say like 3pm. I would get up around 11 and play. That would give me 4 hours to play, and one day I find myself in the best game. I felt I had a big edge, and was faced with going to work, or playing in a very nice game. I made the same choice the rest of you sickos would make

[Pokerghost2 0]

online 2 to 3 hours works best for me, for some reason my game begins to slip after that. live im prolly ok for like 8 or 9 optimum, after which i start losing concentration.

[BDPoolie 0]

about that hand specifically, you should have bet those four dollars on the river. Checking there is really bad, and here's why. Since you're willing to call any bet on the river, you are pretty much costing your self 4 dollars when you ahve the best hand, and he would have called, but losing that 4 dollars when you have the worst hand. It's very unlikely that someone's going to bluff in that situation, as it's your last 4 dollars, and it's a really bad place to bet. Conversely worse hands than yours are very unlikely to bet, since the board is so scary, but better hands than yours WILL bet, and cost you that money. Many worse hands than yours will call on the river, since it's only 4 more dollars, and they are getting great odds. IN short, when the board gets scary, and you're going to call an all in bet on the river, it's bettter to just go all in yourself, so you can make money the times you have the best hand. DOes this make sense?

I agree with your analysis, BigDMcGee, that you lose value by not betting here since a donkey with middle pair or Ace rag will call you down since the bet is so small compared to the pot size. i guess the converse is if the guy has a hand like 2 pair or a set and has been slowplaying it, he might check the river being scared of the one card straight, saving the hero 4 dollars. However, slowplaying a set or 2 pair on the turn here with only 4 dollars left in the hero's stack would make no sense, but a lot of the play at these limits online make no sense. All in all, i think more value is gained by betting this river than is saved by checking it, but just thought i'd play devil's advocate.

I also agree that you are right. I should have bet the last $4. But I was more worried about the analysis for the rest of the hand. I'm happy to see that I played the first part correctly. I thought I had. I did everything I could do to get him to fold. Sometimes I guess they just won't go away.It seems like from the few responses I've gotten, that short sessions are better for people. For me, long sessions have been more profitable.The comment earlier about feeling rushed makes sense though. In these short sessions, I guess I am feeling rushed to "make a profit", where I should be playing my same game. If I play my same game of wating for the right spots, then I may not see as many opportunities in a short session, but I also won't push in the wrong spots and get beat.Again, I am going by memory when I say that longer sessions are better for me. I will certainly sit down and do more research through my tracking. I don't have poker tracker, but I use the online stats at cardplayer.com. It helps to keep up with when I played, for how long, and $+/-. I should be able to get a better idea of the best times and lengths to play for me.Any more opinions are certainly welcome.

[erac22 0]

I did everything I could do to get him to fold. Sometimes I guess they just won't go away.You played the hand correctly, not because you did everything you could to get him to fold. You were ahead and getting maximum value for your hand. Again, you want him to call you on every street. You just don't want him to get lucky on the river.It seems like from the few responses I've gotten, that short sessions are better for people. For me, long sessions have been more profitable.I guess I am feeling rushed to "make a profit", where I should be playing my same game. If I play my same game of wating for the right spots, then I may not see as many opportunities in a short session, but I also won't push in the wrong spots and get beat.I agree entirely.

[Mattnxtc 0]

im sure its been said but:1. not sure what ur complaining about on the hand...guy called down with bottom pair and hit a 5 outer and ur upset? Put him on ur buddy list and know he will give u it all back2. as for the session length. Its all about who u are as a player. Some people take a little bit to get in the right mind and so longer sessions are better for them since they can get focused and play good. Some people (myself included) can play real strong for a good amount of time but as the session rolls we start to lose focus and our play suffers. the one thing is that there is a time limit for anybody and once u reach it u need to get out or no matter who u are ur play is gonna suffer

[Big Trips 0]

Someone commented that playing before work would not be good. Well, for me it is. I live in Sweden. I get up at 5.25 every morning and play between 5.45 and 7.00. I get to play with the night shift over in the states. People tired, drunk, stoned or whatever, bleeding off their money. Sometimes it's so profitable, i'm thinking i should stop going to work...Saturday and sunday mornings (friday and saturday night american time) are the best. If you'd like to try this yourself, try out some of the online poker rooms that attract a lot of europeans (24H, Ladbrokes) and play friday and saturday mornings.If you meant it's not good getting in there to play just a short session, pressed for time, i perfectly agree with you.

[MrJones 0]

NEVER, AND I REPEAT NEVER, JUST TRY TO SQUEEZE IN A 15 - 30 MINUTE SESSION BEFORE WORK OR SOMETHING, IT AFFECTS YOUR GAME AND YOU WON'T WIN AS MUCH!!!