CobaltBlue 662 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Bodog 3/6 NLHE (6-handed)Cobalt $1189MP $500CO $1145Button $588SB $769BB $636Cobalt is UTG w/ 7 6 . Been running the table over. Haven't been open-limping much, but MP just sat and posted. CO and Button are fairly straight-forward TAGs. SB and BB are loose donks.Pre-flop:Cobalt calls, MP checks, 2 folds, SB calls, BB checksFlop ($24): K 4 2 (4 players)SB checks, BB checks, Cobalt bets $14, MP calls, 2 foldsTurn ($52): T (2 players)Cobalt bets $28, MP callsRiver ($108): 3 (2 players)Cobalt checksI typically reserve my discussion until y'all comment, but I've decided to go ahead with it. Actually, I'll white it out so y'all respond first.Limp's a little loose, but having a good feel for the table, I think it's viable. Once the flop hits, I expect the blinds to take a stab with any decent piece or draw. When they don't, I decide to take my stab with backdoor draws only having to get through MP. When he calls, I'm planning to check the turn unless I pick up a draw or pair to see what he does. If he checks behind, I'm betting most non-heart rivers. Picking up my draw, I'm planning to bet the turn and bet any non-heart river. I manage to turn my nothing into an entirely disguised flush. I check, expecting him to bet a busted heart draw or a king for value. Link to post Share on other sites
cwik 0 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 *haven't read comments yet*Check is good. Not too much value in betting because a lot of weak kings are going to muck to 3 barrels. On the other hand, most hands willing to call a raise, (2 pair, set, ect.) will bet the river for value. So the c/r looks good.And you can induce the missed flush draw to bluff at it. Link to post Share on other sites
krup24 0 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 imo villian has flush draw or something like KQ or KJ. it's a toss up here. if hes on a flush draw you give him a chance to bluff the river. if he has a K he'll call a bet 1/2 the pot and almost always check behind. i think there is more value in a bet on the river versus a check. Link to post Share on other sites
NoBBiR 0 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Well you just outplayed the shit out of him and got pretty lucky, which helps. I guess if I had played with him in the past I like checking the river, but with no read I think most of the time (~90%) I'd be betting, not checking. Otherwise, I really like it, especially if you're on a heater and running everyone over. Link to post Share on other sites
Temporary Nuts 1 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Did somebody say something about donkeys acting strong when they're weak and weak when they're strong? Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Cobalt is UTG w/ 7 6 . Been running the table over. Haven't been open-limping much, but MP just sat and posted. .... I manage to turn my nothing into an entirely disguised flush. I check, expecting him to bet a busted heart draw or a king for value.I think you need to donk-bet the river a little to prime the pump. He might be content to check down his K if he's unspectacular. I also don't think he draws to the heart flush after the turn if he doesn't mix it up a lot. He's got a K. Link to post Share on other sites
razvan1984 0 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 nice done...very well played....I thing MP has no clue what you have and that is very important. I also think that MP has a K-10, K-9 or K-J. He might be on a flush drow but I think he has the K with a small Kicker. Link to post Share on other sites
rdtedm 0 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 This might be the only time I approve of the "bet when youve got nothing, check when you get there". NH. Link to post Share on other sites
shinzilla 0 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 In a vacuum... I really don't like the flop play. You're really going to bluff into three people? The turn is fine. The river... not so much. Are you going for the c/r on the river? I think villain will check behind a lot of hands on the river and you're going to miss out on value from them. Even if villain bets out with what is probably KQ, KJ, he's not going to call a c/r. Is this hand just to set up a loose image? Do you want to show this hand down just so people will think you're crazy? I'm not thrilled at all with how this hand was played. You need to bet the river.Edit: I'm an idiot and didn't notice the flush draw on the flop. But hey, I'm working on two hours of sleep, so whatever. The check on the river is much better than I had originally given it credit for but I'd still bet here. Who knows what kinds of crazy hands he'll call with here? He just sat and posted, which is generally indicative of a terrible player. Link to post Share on other sites
cwik 0 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Just wanna point out, while Cobalt will almost never show up here with 2 pair, because the villain posted, he can very easily have any two pair on this board. This is another reason why c/r is good. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 I think that checking and hoping to get any value from a 1 pair hand is pretty hopeless here. He bet into 4 people on the flop and bet the turn again. Your hand looks pretty strong. I think he's checking behind with most med. strength hands here. I'd just bet. Link to post Share on other sites
Snamuh 0 Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 I think betting is a lot better here. A King will call a river bet but will probably check behind if given the option. A missed heart draw might bluff, but then again might not. I think there's more value in a bet. Link to post Share on other sites
CobaltBlue 662 Posted October 26, 2007 Author Share Posted October 26, 2007 Guys...he's busted a lot (I can't fathom how y'all suppose a random is folding a heart draw on that turn)...and I lose tremendous value if I don't give him a chance to bluff. If he's not busted, he's got a king. If he's got a king, why would he fear value-betting it on this board? He probably doesn't have AK. He could have KQ/KJ. KT is a little less likely but possible. So now we're worried about him checking K9/K8/K7/K6/K5? If he's got those hands, should he really be calling my 3rd barrel? In addition to all the busted flush draws and kings, he could even have two pair or a straight...which he's going to bet. If I made an obvious hand on an obvious board, I'm absolutely in agreement that I should just go ahead and bet. I think this is one of the exceptions though. Link to post Share on other sites
David_Nicoson 1 Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 Are we assuming that MP hasn't been watching you run over the table?There are more combinations of kings than heart draws, but the action might make us lean back toward the draw. # hands with one king = 3 * (52 - 1 - 4 - 2) = 135 (Probably wrong, but close)# hands with two hearts = 11 choose 2 = 55If he has complete air, how much does our bet discourage him from bluffing? I think blocking bets generally are a bad idea, simply because the villain can raise them. We're in the opposite situation here. I think if we bet 30 on the river, the villain raises us almost as often as if we had checked. But we get more value from king-rag. Link to post Share on other sites
CobaltBlue 662 Posted October 26, 2007 Author Share Posted October 26, 2007 Are we assuming that MP hasn't been watching you run over the table?There are more combinations of kings than heart draws, but the action might make us lean back toward the draw. # hands with one king = 3 * (52 - 1 - 4 - 2) = 135 (Probably wrong, but close)# hands with two hearts = 11 choose 2 = 55If he has complete air, how much does our bet discourage him from bluffing? I think blocking bets generally are a bad idea, simply because the villain can raise them. We're in the opposite situation here. I think if we bet 30 on the river, the villain raises us almost as often as if we had checked. But we get more value from king-rag.I am making that assumption, yes.And, I really felt the action tended to look more like flush draw for him. Also, you seem to have discounted the biggish and two pair kings...which I really think are plenty likely to v-bet here.Hoping for bluff-raises is...very ambitious. My "normal" v-bet on this river is going to be $60-$80. However, if we're in villain's shoes, are you really planning to call that with K5-K7? Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 My "normal" v-bet on this river is going to be $60-$80. However, if we're in villain's shoes, are you really planning to call that with K5-K7?I think if you've been running over the table, yeah, you're getting a call. People love to be the cop. But when I run someone down, I always think I need to get value out of it. Sort of, "bigger risk needs bigger payday" thinking. I might overbet to spoof a bluff here, which, if you truly have been running over the table, is getting called by almost any K. Link to post Share on other sites
Sheiky 0 Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Limp's a little loose, but having a good feel for the table, I think it's viable. Once the flop hits, I expect the blinds to take a stab with any decent piece or draw. When they don't, I decide to take my stab with backdoor draws only having to get through MP. When he calls, I'm planning to check the turn unless I pick up a draw or pair to see what he does. If he checks behind, I'm betting most non-heart rivers. Picking up my draw, I'm planning to bet the turn and bet any non-heart river. I manage to turn my nothing into an entirely disguised flush. I check, expecting him to bet a busted heart draw or a king for value.I think he's gonna be checking behind here with a naked king if he just called the flop and turn.I think the best play is to bet here.I figure that if he is calling down with TP or something he's gonna call a reasonable river bet, if he has a busted heart draw he's gonna bet and throw it away when you raise so assuming these two scenarios are equal in monetary value i think the most likely is a moderate hand that will call a river bet so betting is theoreticaly more profitable. Link to post Share on other sites
David_Nicoson 1 Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Hoping for bluff-raises is...very ambitious. My "normal" v-bet on this river is going to be $60-$80. However, if we're in villain's shoes, are you really planning to call that with K5-K7?So bet less than that? Link to post Share on other sites
CobaltBlue 662 Posted October 27, 2007 Author Share Posted October 27, 2007 I think if you've been running over the table, yeah, you're getting a call. People love to be the cop. But when I run someone down, I always think I need to get value out of it. Sort of, "bigger risk needs bigger payday" thinking. I might overbet to spoof a bluff here, which, if you truly have been running over the table, is getting called by almost any K.We've already clarified that villain is new to the table and isn't aware that I've been running over the table.So bet less than that?=PIf I thought he had a king that he wasn't going to bet most of the time, I v-bet. As I felt his range was concentratedly busted with some v-betting kings/two pair/straights, I think the check-raise works great here.I don't get it...do you guys never C/R the river? I mean, it's obviously a very rare thing for me...but if we're not going to do it here...when in the world are we going to do it? Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 The river sexy is a rare play, but it gets me super hot when you can pull it off.It's like 10000% reads based though, man. Tough to get a definitive answer on it on an interweb forum. Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 We've already clarified that villain is new to the table and isn't aware that I've been running over the table.GODAMNIT. "Cobalt is UTG w/ 7 6 . Been running the table over."ALRIGHT. Link to post Share on other sites
David_Nicoson 1 Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 I don't get it...do you guys never C/R the river?Hmmm, not very much. Link to post Share on other sites
No_Neck 0 Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 those stats are full ring correct? Link to post Share on other sites
David_Nicoson 1 Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 those stats are full ring correct?Right. Link to post Share on other sites
TraptSteve 0 Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 results = Link to post Share on other sites
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